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Old 09-30-2009, 03:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanuagemaniac View Post
what do you mean? can you elaborate it?
Sorry . . . while I will confront deception and outright misrepresentations as in the preceding about abrogation . . . I am not here to teach Islam. These are old resources but they might help:

Richard Bell, Introduction to the Qur'an (Edinburgh: Edinburgh University Press, 1953), , pp. 86-107;

Arthur Jeffery, Islam: Muhammad and His Religion (Indianapolis: Bobbs-Merrill, 1958), p. 66.

I am sure a google search would provide more up-to-date references than mine. I am an old man.
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Old 09-30-2009, 10:52 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
God abrogates or confirms whatsoever he will, for he has with him the Book of the Books. Qur. 13:39.

When we cancel a message, or throw it into oblivion, we replace it with one better or one similar. Do you not know that God has power over all things? Qur. 2:106.

The Quran ( : recent) abrogated the Torah ( : old)

{according to the late interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly}

The Quran annulled or abrogated many old statements of the Torah, and substituted all that by new statements in the Quran.

About the detailed explanation of the aya 2: 106 see my reply #56 on page 6 in this thread:
مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا أَلَمْ تَعْلَمْ أَنَّ اللّهَ عَلَىَ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ قَدِيرٌ

The explanation:
(Such of the signs [of the revelations of the Torah] as We may annul or preserve We will bring [in the Quran] one better than it or one similar to it.
Don't you know that God is Omnipotent over all things?)

While about the aya 13: 39
يَمْحُو اللّهُ مَا يَشَاء وَيُثْبِتُ وَعِندَهُ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ

The explanation:
(God cancels whatsoever He wills, and He affirms [whatsoever He wills]; with Him is the Essence of the Book.)

The interpretation:
>> (God cancels whatsoever He wills) It means: God cancels the heavy duties prescribed in the Torah for the Children of Israel, and substitutes all that in the Quran by milder duties for your nation, Mohammed.

>> (and He affirms) in the Quran, some duties prescribed in the Torah for the Children of Israel; so that you will do such duties as did the Children of Israel do; such duties are like the prayer, the fasting and the Zakat almsgiving …etc.

>> (with Him is the Essence of the Book) which is the Preserved Tablet in heaven.

This aya is like His saying – be glorified – in the Quran 2: 106
مَا نَنسَخْ مِنْ آيَةٍ أَوْ نُنسِهَا نَأْتِ بِخَيْرٍ مِّنْهَا أَوْ مِثْلِهَا

The explanation:
(Such of the signs [of the revelations of the Torah] as We may annul or preserve We will bring [in the Quran] one better than it or one similar to it.)

So that:
(Such of the signs [of the revelations of the Torah] as We may annul)
is like (God cancels whatsoever He wills)

While (and He affirms)
is like (or [We] preserve)
Which means: We leave it as it is in the Torah; so that the statement in the Quran will be identical with that in the Torah.
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Old 09-30-2009, 11:00 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eanassir View Post
The Quran ( : recent) abrogated the Torah ( : old)
Save it, eanassir . . . the Torah is not mentioned. According to your own beliefs, Allah would not be so circumspect. If Allah meant the Torah . . Allah would have said so.
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Old 10-01-2009, 03:02 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Save it, eanassir . . . the Torah is not mentioned. According to your own beliefs, Allah would not be so circumspect. If Allah meant the Torah . . Allah would have said so.
yeah ı quite agree with you mysticphd. why is allah so ambigious, vague why why? on the one hand god says this is a clear book,easy to understand and on the other hand you can find so so many ambiguity in the quran itself...

this book is no other than a word of mohammad and his fellows and nobody can defend quran authenticity.it s just a matter of belief.

belief is either intuitional or blind, it is not depond upon reason...I want to finish my writing with this verse telling of directly pre-destiny belief:

13. If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me came out, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."
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Old 10-01-2009, 05:22 PM
 
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THE QURAN

Quran Means "Recitation"

The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).

Only One Version - Arabic

There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.


Memorized by Millions - Entirely

The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?

Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized

All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.


God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran

The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).



Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).


Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly



The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Quran Challanges Readers

The Quran makes the clear challange, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate it's beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challange for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challange offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.


Scientific Miracles in Quran


The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).

Science Islam - Scientists Comment on the Quran


Reference :
Islam Tomorrow .com
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Old 10-01-2009, 06:25 PM
 
25 posts, read 41,444 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ahmd1400 View Post
THE QURAN

Quran Means "Recitation"

The word "Quran" means "that which is recited; or that which is dictated in memory form." As such, it is not a book, nor is it something that reaches us only in written form. The documentation in writting about the Quran has been preserved in museums thoughout the world, including the Topekopi Palace in Istanbul, Turkey, the museum in Tashkent, Uzbekistan and also in England. Keep in mind also, the Quran is only considered "Quran" while it is in the recitation form, not in the written or the book form. The word for what is written and held in the hand to be read by the eye is called "mus-haf" (meaning script or that which is written down).

Only One Version - Arabic

There are no different versions of the Quran in the Arabic language, only different translations and of course, none of these would be considered to hold the value and authenticity of the original Arabic Recitation. The Quran is divided up into 30 equal parts, called "Juz'" (parts) in the Arabic language. These are learned by Muslims from their very early beginnings as children.


Memorized by Millions - Entirely

The important thing to keep in mind about the Quran is the memorization and transmission of the actual "Rectiation" just as it came to Muhammad, peace be upon him, from the Angel Gabriel and was learned and memorized by his companions and they in turn, passed it down to their followers and continued in this way until we see today, over 10,000,000 (ten million) Muslims who have committed the entire Quran to memory. This is not a small feat. After all, how many other works of literary value have been memorized and passed down through so many generations, in the original language, without a single change in even one sentence?

Each Muslim Has "Quran" Memorized

All Muslims have memorzied a portion of the Quran in the Arabic language, as this is an important part of their daily prayers. Many Muslims have memorized large portions of the Quran from one tenth to one half to all of the entire Quran, and all in the original Arabic language. It should be noted, there are over one and a half billion (1,500,000,000) Muslims worldwide and only about 10% are Arab, all the rest are learing the Quran in Arabic as a second language.


God Speaks in First Person to Mankind in Quran

The Quran contains clear statements from Almighty God (Allah) and it is Him speaking to all of us in the first person. He tells of us our own creation, the creation of all that is the universe and what has happened to those before us and what is to become of us if we do not take heed of the warnings clearly spelled out in His Revelation. He speaks also to Muhammad, peace be upon him, to show that Muhammad, peace be upon him, is not making this up himself and even chastises Muhammad, peace be upon him, for making human assumptions rather than waiting for revelation in matters (ie.; surah At-Tahreem and surah Abasa).



Quran Mentions Itself

The Quran refers to itself as "The Quran" (The Recitation) and mentions that it is to all mankind and jinn (another creation of Allah, similar to humans in that they could make choices as to whether or not they would obey God's Commandments, and they existed before humans).


Quran Describes God's Nature Exactly



The Quran is clear on who God is and who He is not. There is no room left for doubt after reading the Quran in the Arabic languge: God is One. He is the only Creator, Sustainer and Owner of the Universe. He has no partners. He has no relatives; wives, children or offspring. He is not like His creation and He does not need it for His existance, while all the time the creation is totally dependent on Him. His attributes are clearly spelled out as the epitome of each and every one. He is for instance, the All-Knowing; the All-Hearing; the All-Seeing; the All-Forgiving; the All- Loving; the All-Merciful; the Only One God. There is never a contradiction to this found anywhere in the Quran.

Quran Challanges Readers

The Quran makes the clear challange, that if you are in doubt about it - then bring a book like it. Also, to bring ten chapters like it and then finally, to bring one single chapter like it. 1,400 years - and no one has been able to duplicate it's beauty, recitation, miracles and ease of memorization. Another challange for the unbelievers to consider; "If this (Quran) were from other than Allah, you would find within it many contradictions." And yet, another challange offered by Allah in the Quran is for the unbelievers to look around for evidences. Allah says He will show them His signs within themselves and on the farthest horizons.


Scientific Miracles in Quran


The scientific miracles of the Quran could not have been understood at that time, yet today we take for granted the many things included in the revelation of the Quran. Some include mentioning: The formation of embryo in the womb of the mother (surah 98); deep seas partitions; waters that do not mix; clouds and how they make rain and how lightning is caused by ice crystals; formation of the earth's mountains deep underground; orbits of planets and stars and moons - and even the mention of space travel (surah 55:33).

Science Islam - Scientists Comment on the Quran


Reference :
Islam Tomorrow .com
always same tactic by most muslims.when they cannot answer the questions like these, they immediately post scientific miracles absurdities... first answer our questions if u can...
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Old 10-01-2009, 11:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Save it, eanassir . . . the Torah is not mentioned. According to your own beliefs, Allah would not be so circumspect. If Allah meant the Torah . . Allah would have said so.

The Quran came after the Torah, and the Quran should be followed

{The interpretation is according to the late inspired interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly}

Many of the statements of the Torah have been substituted with some milder statements in the Quran.

Examples:
The fasting was to Jews 23 hours/day: they break their fast for one hour after sunset then they fast till next day 23 hours/day.

In the Quran: the fasting became during the daytime, then they break their fast all the night till dawn, then they fast from dawn till the dark of the night the following day.

The fat in food: fat is prohibited for Jews in the Torah, except that in the back or that mixed with bone or what the entrails include.

While for Muslims, in the Quran, all kinds of fat is lawful, unless that be of the swine of course.

The menstrual cycle of the woman:
In the Quran, man is prevented from contacting his wife sexually during her cycle of the blood issue, then when the woman is clean of her issue and she wash her body with water, she becomes clean and lawful for her husband.

While for Jews in the Torah: the wife is unclean until one week after the cessation of her issue (she will be unclean for about 2 weeks or more each month);

Moreover, she is unclean during her issue so that anything she touches will be unclean, and if some of her blood issue fall on some clothes then such patches should be cut with scissors then sutured with some other piece of clothes. While nothing of that is in the Quran.

Therefore, the Torah has much difficulties which God moderated that into milder duties in the Quran.

While many other duties have been kept and observed in the Quran as in the Torah. This is like the prayers and the swearing in God alone …etc.

Another example:
Jews denied that Prophet Mohammed considered lawful the camel meat; because he said: "such camel meat was lawful for Abraham";
The Jews said: "Every thing unlawful to us, it was unlawful also for Noah and Abraham and all the prophets until it reached us as such".

Therefore, this aya was revealed:
كُلُّ الطَّعَامِ كَانَ حِـلاًّ لِّبَنِي إِسْرَائِيلَ إِلاَّ مَا حَرَّمَ إِسْرَائِيلُ عَلَى نَفْسِهِ مِن قَبْلِ أَن تُنَزَّلَ التَّوْرَاةُ قُلْ فَأْتُواْ بِالتَّوْرَاةِ فَاتْلُوهَا إِن كُنتُمْ صَادِقِينَ . فَمَنِ افْتَرَىَ عَلَى اللّهِ الْكَذِبَ مِن بَعْدِ ذَلِكَ فَأُوْلَـئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ

The explanation:
(All [kinds of food] were lawful to the Children of Israel [: Jacob] except [the meat of camel] that Israel [: Jacob] forbade himself [; because of some disease in his bowel; in days] before the Torah [: the Canon] was revealed

[but later when the Torah was revealed to Moses, God forbade you the meat of camel.]

Say [to them, O Mohammed]: "Produce the Torah [or the Canon] and recite it [to us] if you indeed are truthful [in your claim.]"

And whoever after that [recital of the Torah, and exposing the truth] shall invent a lie concerning God; such [liars] will be the wrong-doers.)
--------------------------------------

Then these Jews went to their priests and asked them:
"Is there anything written in the Torah that the camel meat was unlawful for Abraham and his sons?"

They said: "Nothing like that is written in the Torah."

So the Jews said: "You have told the truth, Mohammed."

Therefore, this aya was revealed:
قُلْ صَدَقَ اللّهُ فَاتَّبِعُواْ مِلَّةَ إِبْرَاهِيمَ حَنِيفًا وَمَا كَانَ مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ

The explanation:
(Say [O Mohammed, to these Jews], " It is God Who has told [you and us] the truth [because I don't know the Unknown, and I don't know the statement of your Torah which is written in Hebrew, but God told me that by the tongue of Gabriel];

then follow the faith of Abraham, a 'Hanief ' [: a monotheist,] who was not [one] of the associaters.")
-----------------------------------------------

Therefore, the Quran has the supervision over the Torah, and the Quran has the priority over the Torah; because the Quran is more recent than the old Torah, and the statements of the Quran have to be followed, even though the recent Quran cancelled or abrogated some of the statements of the old Torah.

Last edited by eanassir; 10-02-2009 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 10-02-2009, 01:25 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanuagemaniac View Post
yeah ı quite agree with you mysticphd. ...I want to finish my writing with this verse telling of directly pre-destiny belief:

13. If We had so willed, We could certainly have brought every soul its true guidance: but the Word from Me came out, "I will fill Hell with Jinns and men all together."

Why God will punish people (and genies) in Hell

{The interpretation is according to the late inspired interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly}

This is in the Quran 32: 12
وَلَوْ تَرَى إِذِ الْمُجْرِمُونَ نَاكِسُو رُؤُوسِهِمْ عِندَ رَبِّهِمْ رَبَّنَا أَبْصَرْنَا وَسَمِعْنَا فَارْجِعْنَا نَعْمَلْ صَالِحًا إِنَّا مُوقِنُونَ

The explanation:
(If you [Mohammed] but see when sinners lower down their heads before their Lord [in the world of souls: humbled and abased; saying:]

"Our Lord, we have seen and heard, then return us back [to the material world], that we may do righteous [work];

for we now are certain [about the reward and the punishment.]")

So God – be glorified – answered them in the following aya:
وَلَوْ شِئْنَا لَآتَيْنَا كُلَّ نَفْسٍ هُدَاهَا وَلَكِنْ حَقَّ الْقَوْلُ مِنِّي لَأَمْلَأَنَّ جَهَنَّمَ مِنَ الْجِنَّةِ وَالنَّاسِ أَجْمَعِينَ

The explanation:
(If We had so willed, We could have given to every soul its guidance, but My due word was pronounced in truth:

"Certainly, I will fill Hell with [the wrong-doers of] the genie-kind and the man-kind altogether.")

The interpretation:
>> (but My due word was pronounced in truth) it means: I said and My word is true, that after death, there will be no return to the life of the World once again.

>> ("Certainly, I will fill Hell with [the wrong-doers of] the genie-kind and the man-kind altogether.")

This is because people are two kinds:
1- Kind-hearted, merciful, modest, doing every good work.
2- And hard-hearted, harsh, wrong-doer and transgressor on others.

So God guides the first category and will reward them in Paradise in the afterlife, while He misguides the second category and will punish them in Hell in the afterlife.
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:15 AM
 
1,554 posts, read 1,578,776 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lanuagemaniac View Post
yeah ı quite agree with you mysticphd. why is allah so ambigious, vague why why? on the one hand god says this is a clear book,easy to understand and on the other hand you can find so so many ambiguity in the quran itself...

this book is no other than a word of mohammad and his fellows and nobody can defend quran authenticity.it s just a matter of belief.

belief is either intuitional or blind, it is not depond upon reason...

The wrong-doers lie to people

{The interpretation is according to the late inspired interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly}

God – be exalted – revealed the Quran, with two categories of revelations:

1. The Muhkam: that is the plain straightforward revelations: like those concerning the prayer, fasting and other religious rites.
God challenged the Arab and all man-kind and demon-kind to bring about an analogue of it.

2. The Mutashabih: that is "similitudes" or the ambiguous revelations, which are like puzzles, that constituted a challenge to people to solve such puzzles and know their secret meaning;

like the letters at the beginning of the sooras or chapters of the Quran, and many other revelations including many scientific implication that people in the past did not know,

and will appear by time, and most of them will be interpreted by the Paraclite(: the Mahdi.)

God – be exalted – said in the Quran 3: 7
هُوَ الَّذِيَ أَنزَلَ عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ مِنْهُ آيَاتٌ مُّحْكَمَاتٌ هُنَّ أُمُّ الْكِتَابِ وَأُخَرُ مُتَشَابِهَاتٌ فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ في قُلُوبِهِمْ زَيْغٌ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ مَا تَشَابَهَ مِنْهُ ابْتِغَاء الْفِتْنَةِ وَابْتِغَاء تَأْوِيلِهِ وَمَا يَعْلَمُ تَأْوِيلَهُ إِلاَّ اللّهُ

The explanation:
([God] is He Who has revealed to you [Prophet] the Book [: the Quran]:
some of which being 'precise' aya's; they are the essence of the Book,
[whereas] others being 'similitudes'.

But those, in whose hearts is a deviation [from the truth]; these follow the 'similitudes' therein:
>> seeking to seduce [people and turn them away],
>> and seeking to interpret it. But none but God [only] does know its interpretation …)
-------------------------------------

Some unlucky men, in whose hearts is deviation, chose to be against God and His revealed Quran, and sought after such revelations to seduce people by misleading them and giving them false meaning, specially people who do not know Arabic.

So they lie to non-Arab people saying to them: the Quran is full of crookedness, ambiguity, contradictions and mistakes; therefore, according to their claims it was invented by Mohammed himself, and it is not the word of God; that is to frustrate God and His revelations, and they work and strive for this purpose;

Therefor, I tell them: it is only against yourselves will all this effort be, and you will go to Hell when even Jesus will curse you and quit himself from you and your devils.

Last edited by eanassir; 10-02-2009 at 03:40 AM..
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Old 10-02-2009, 03:55 AM
 
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Believers seek after the plain ayat and are guided,
while disbelievers seek after the ambiguous ayat and are misguided.

{The interpretation is according to the late inspired interpreter of the Quran and the Bible: Mohammed-Ali Hassan al-Hilly}

When God gave the parables telling about some small animals like flies and the spider, some narrow minded people said: how can it be that God tells the parables about such insects and animals; therefore this Quran is not from God; so God revealed this aya 2: 26
إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَسْتَحْيِي أَن يَضْرِبَ مَثَلاً مَّا بَعُوضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَا فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلاً يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيراً وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيراً وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلاَّ الْفَاسِقِينَ

The explanation:
(Surely God is not ashamed to give an example [: a parable], whatsoever even of a gnat and anything superior to it.

As for those who believe, they know that it is the truth from their Lord;

but as for those who disbelieve, they say: 'What is it that God means by this as an example [: a parable]?

He misleads many thereby [by the ambiguous ayat], and thereby [: by the plain ayat] guides many;

He misleads only evildoers thereby. )

It means: Wrong-doers will seek after the ambiguous ayat :
>> to mislead people
>> and try to interpret it according to their desires in order to turn people away from the religion of God.

And by doing so they will destroy themselves in Hell and they will perish deserving God's wrath.
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