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Old 11-05-2009, 10:14 PM
 
2,981 posts, read 4,476,048 times
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Troubling protrait emerges of Army psychiatrist suspected in rampage at Fort Hood, Texas - 11/5/2009 9:31:32 PM | Newser
He listed his nationality as "Palastinian" says the article, though he was born in the USA of Islamic parents from "Palestine"!
That tells it all!

Quote:
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2379738/posts
A source tells NPR's Joseph Shapiro that Hasan was put on probation early in his postgraduate work at the Uniformed Service University of the Health Sciences in Bethesda, Md. He was disciplined for proselytizing about his Muslim faith with patients and colleagues, according to the source, who worked with him at the time.

Quote:
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=115218
"Muslims should stand up and fight the aggressor." That's what Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan said about America before he and possibly other Muslim soldiers at Fort Hood shot 43 fellow soldiers, killing 12, who were returning from Iraq and Afghanistan.
"He said Muslims had a right to attack" the U.S., said Col. Terry Lee, who worked with Hasan at the Texas post, where the devout Sunni Muslim refused deployment. "He said Muslims shouldn't be fighting Muslims," he added. "He was very clear on that."
...
"America needs to awaken from its sleep and its unwillingness to face the issue of fundamentalist Islam in our midst which undoubtedly is the cause of the tragedy in Fort Hood," said Walid Shoebat, a former Islamist terrorist.

Last edited by yeshuasavedme; 11-05-2009 at 10:25 PM..
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Old 11-05-2009, 10:28 PM
 
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Freedom's Lighthouse: Security Camera Video Shows Fort Hood Shooter in Muslim Dress at a Convenience Store Earlier Today - Video 11/5/09

Quote:
Here is video of Fort Hood Shooter Major Nidal Malik Hasan on security camera video from earlier today in a convenience store. He is dressed in Muslim clothing in the security camera video. The video says there was a Mosque nearby.
Security Camera Video Shows Fort Hood Shooter in Muslim Dress at a Convenience Store Earlier Today - Video 11/5/09
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Old 11-05-2009, 11:54 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 25,005,405 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
This is extremely naive, at best. People are clearly capable of hating each other without religion. Estonians murder each other in high numbers and they're some of the most irreligious people on the planet.

If the world were rid of religion we'd still hate each other over economic class, ethnicity, nationality, or over non-religious ideologies. Maybe an Anarcho-socialist would go blow-up the Club for Growth or something.
I'm not trying to rid the world of all hatred, just the 80 - 90% born in the different religions of the world. Nothing on the planet has done such a great job of organizing hatred as has organized religion.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:26 AM
 
Location: Cali
3,904 posts, read 6,210,000 times
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Its pretty pathetic to think that the bastard was born and raised in this country! Did you ever hear of a German American or Japanese American doing anything like this during World War II??
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:35 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,938 posts, read 31,833,210 times
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I've noticed that the numerous Muslim forum members have been silent on this tragedy....I would really like to hear their thoughts on this.
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Old 11-06-2009, 12:49 AM
 
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ksl.com - Fort Hood soldier describes horrific scene to family in Utah
Quote:
NORTHERN UTAH -- The news of the mass shooting at Fort Hood Thursday hit close to home for some Utahns. One man says his daughter heard the shooter exclaim "Allah Akbar" as he opened fire....
A person behind counter stood up, and he said, ‘Allah Akbar!' "And just opened up on everybody," the father told us.
pictures and story at link
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:10 AM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,042,077 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
I've noticed that the numerous Muslim forum members have been silent on this tragedy....I would really like to hear their thoughts on this.
i have nothing to add , i read allready many rational and objective responses

are have any direct questions ?
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Old 11-06-2009, 01:59 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,015,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
I'm not trying to rid the world of all hatred, just the 80 - 90% born in the different religions of the world. Nothing on the planet has done such a great job of organizing hatred as has organized religion.
Except maybe Nationalism, Imperialism, "Scientific" Racism, and Marxism. Although possibly those just organize cruelty in a cold unemotional way. As religion has a more emotional component I suppose it might equate to "more hatred." (As well as more love, kindness, mercy, and other icky-poo emotions)
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:46 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 22,049,502 times
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I wonder which religion of peace the very, very vast majority of people who shoot and murder people every day in the US belong ? From those people who go on the rampage to single shooters....

Oh I forgot they're not "true" Christians , only lost sheep. ALL Extremism and fundamentalism is dangerous regardless of religious or ideological affiliation. And violent nutters are found sadly everywhere.

Islam like Christianity is being distorted and abused by a small minority with a political /ideological agenda . Having travelled extensively a single woman Atheist in the Middle east I have never encountered any violence and never felt threatened as long as I was respectful of local customs. The Western world however , now that's a different proposition....

We sit there so smug as some kind of superior beings with our so "civilised" view of the world and seem to have little inclination to actually try to even grasp some truth about other people's beliefs.

the Qur'an like the Bible is being high-jacked by fruit-cakes and our foreign policies are facilitating the endoctrination of some people . Both scriptures are as easily misread as one another and mis-interpreted. Politics , human nature and the appeal of power is a potent mix.

All the Koranic Scholars I know have a serious problem with the way the Qur'an is being read by some. Like all religions , education and free-thinking is the enemy and in the wrong hands becomes a tool for evil and extemist behaviour.

We can make scriptures mean just about anything. The Bible itself is full of horrors and repugnant statements, of behaviour more suited to evil men than good ones. It all comes down to interpretation.

As someone who knows a lot of Muslims at home and in the Middle East, I do not recognise those "monsters" everyone assumes they are. Every Muslim I know is like all of us , they love their kids, want the best for them and their loved ones, they love, they laugh and they grieve. Yes a small highly "visible" minority are high-jacking the Qur'an and committing terrible crimes but I wouldn't feel too smug about how lovely and civilised we are looking at some posters on this forum.

I loathe ALL form of extremism . It is dangerous. But there is no need to throw out the baby with the bath water and demonise a group of people simply because a tiny proportion commit atrocities. If we are going to do this we will have to start and take a big long and good look in the mirror .

Last edited by Mooseketeer; 11-06-2009 at 04:00 AM..
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Old 11-06-2009, 03:54 AM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,291,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Miss Blue View Post
BTW, what would that have to do with his going crazy and shooting down innocent people?
I'm not really so much responding to you, Miss Blue as much as I am coinciding these sentiments with what I have to say.

First off, I think this thread is a little premature. I say that because it's been about 12-15 hours since this tragedy occurred and it seems that everyone has an opinion on it within 12-15 seconds. To the groups of people who consider themselves rational thinkers, I say "shame on you" for jumping to such quick conclusions without even the slightest bit of cold, hard evidence to support one's opinion. After all, a large majority of these posts were written before we even knew the shooter was still alive! How can one possibly sit there and say they can know or suggest anything about what happened when it's absolutely evident that the only details we know are that this was indeed a tragedy and that it happened on an Army base by an officer in said service?

At this point, his name, his religious affiliation, his sentiments about the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan and a plethora of other details we've tried to abstract have been from nothing but skittish and inconsistent news agencies whom I hardly have much respect for when it comes to "responsible journalism." That goes for CNN, FoxNews, MSNBC, and all the other large media conglomerates that pump this stuff through our veins 24/7.

My first and foremost conclusion is that we simply don't know for what reasons he did what he did. I am not defending him and I am not defending Islam (or other religions for that matter). What saddens me aside from this tragedy is this innate human condition for people to feel that such matters can be discerned within mere minutes (or hours) after such a complex tragedy has happened. It hardly presents a basis for rationale, for intelligent thought or for deductive reasoning when not a single post that I've read has even mentioned that whatever information is floating around out there is probably speculative at best.

Indeed, some things about the incident that were initially reported may very well end up being true. But, just like any matter of investigation (for those science-minded individuals) we should not come to such ardent conclusions until proper amounts of research have been done. To suggest otherwise is merely to assert hypothetical ideas as truth with very limited or very sketchy evidence to support said ideas in the first place.

Second of all, I would like to make some other points. If the guy was in fact a Muslim (which is probably one of the more accurate conjectures in the news) does his religious belief take the sole brunt of the responsibility for his actions? For me, the answer is an emphatic "NO," albeit with a few caveats. I should make note that the aforementioned caveats are precisely what I hate about religion. Because religious belief is so sacred and protected, it becomes infinitely easier for people to project their mental illnesses or delusions (even if the person could be classified as 'sane') onto their religious beliefs.

In other words, there stands a pretty good chance in my mind that any guy who walks into a building and shoots twelve or thirteen people while wounding dozens others has some mental issues. These mental issues, I should note, are not solely in the realm of people of different faiths and beliefs. As human beings, we are all prone to undergoing traumatic bouts of stress, mental illness and downright delusional activity. We are not separated in our sanity by belief and non-belief. However, it seems to be a recurrent theme that religion allows for insanity to perpetuate and spread more easily because of the very nature of its intangibility and un-provability.

Thus, when we hear about a situation like this we are instantly led to believe that it was his "Muslim-ness" that perpetuated the act. That may have certain elements of truth to it. He may have used his religion to perpetuate his mental illness. But anyone who walks into a building and starts shooting random people has far more wrong with them than religion. What irks me about religion, as I said before, is the easiness upon which insanity is allowed to perpetuate itself within such a gelatinous framework. Therein lies the danger of religion. If insanity itself is irrational and since religion has hardly proven itself to be rational for the common person (Young Earth Creationists being a prime example), the two seem to feed off of one another to great extents. This is not to say that those who hold irrational beliefs will go out and commit heinous crimes. But, when combining irrational religious beliefs with insanity (albeit temporary or permanent insanity) one should quickly seek shelter and run as fast as one can for cover because things are about to get nasty.

Instead of jumping on the bandwagon and feeding off the trailer parks of news conglomerates, shouldn't we all agree that there is simply not enough information at this point in time to really make any sort of cognizant decision about what actually happened or for what reasons it actually happened?
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