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Old 11-05-2009, 09:13 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
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I just had this wonderful conversation with a Muslim taxi driver about religion and peace. I think that many Muslims are extremely peaceful and exceptionally prone to peace and compassion.

However, I think it is clear to anyone who has walked the face of this earth in the past forty years, that the religion itself opens the door to some very violent interpretations. AS a result, when a teacher decides to interpret the Koran in the worse way, (a) he will always to be able to find support for his views in the Koran and (b) he is able to recruit very easily similarly violent types by relying on the Koran itself.

We then add the flawed religious text with a flawed teaching & oversight system, in which extremist teachers can very quickly be accepted as official imams and begin recruiting.

We then add in massive oil dollars which can pay for terrorism.

We then add the terrible income inequalities of the Arab/Muslim world and the lack of robust economic development.

Throw in the desire of many Muslims to overthrow the secular governments...

We then add in the geopolitics of Pakistan, Afghanistan and the Middle East, all of which have seen many years of war over the past 60+ years.

Throw in the decadence of the West.

Throw in US aid to the "enemies" of terror, folks that are just as bad.

Throw in Arab media, which shows Western atrocities, and US media (which is pro-Israel and anti-Arab) (which shows mainly Arab atrocities).

Finally throw in the US military's role in the Middle East since the Gulf War.

And what do you have? The recipe for a pure disaster in perpetuity.

I am saddened.

As bad as are the US blunders, for the US to pull out, who will take its place? The US is the only glue holding things together. THe EU has been a joke. Asia has not cared other than in trivial speeches. If the Middle East is left to itself. We can expect the 1967 and 1973 wars to be commonplace.

But I am saddened by the opportunity cost, the lost of friendships and potential friendships. And of course there are the many thousands of innocents killed, accidentally perhaps, but killed nevertheless.

I honestly see no obvious way out. Thanks UK for effing it all up when you "gave" European Jews someone else's homeland.

But what a mess!
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:13 AM
 
Location: Nowhere'sville
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No hope. The radicals ruin the whole religion for everyone.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:49 AM
 
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I honestly see no obvious way out. Thanks UK for effing it all up when you "gave" European Jews someone else's homeland.

But what a mess![/quote]


Yes its a mess. Britain did not give the Jews someone elses homeland. The British divided up a territory for 2 states. One for the Palestinians and one for the Jews. There was a Jewish population in the territory already so it was not just Palestinians. Most of the middle east had been just territories and not countries until they were divided up when the ottoman empire was breaking up.

The Palestinians would have a state along side Israel if they had not decided to attack. There would be not refugees, no terrorism. The Palestinians would have a state.


The European Jews came home to Israel after being decimated after WW2. The belief was that there was no where in the world Jews could be safe and that Jews needed to have self determination and be in control of their own future and not leave it in the hands of others.
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:52 AM
 
Location: New York City
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There are people on this side of the world who would not mind seeing them blow each other off the planet and call it a day. Problem is, in today's world, what happens "over there" affects "over here."

I don't know what the remedy is for that area of the world, to be honest. I used to believe that, like Europe, they will have to go through a bloody "reformation" where the religious power that holds sway has to crumble and set in a corner as some old antiquated relic just like Christianity is today for so many people. These clowns running the show over there are no different than old European nobles and religious leaders using religion to fuel their agendas while lining their pockets as Europe fell into total chaos and ruin.

That being said, we live in an entirely different world where hatred, anger and an appetite for destruction has a far wider scope. A phone call, command, text message or e-mail from the other end of the world can mean the death of many on the other side. There is so much blame to go around on ALL sides, it's hard to know where to start and it is innocent people on both ends who are caught up in the middle and exploited.

Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 11-06-2009 at 06:01 AM..
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Old 11-06-2009, 05:54 AM
 
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Islam acts today like Christianity did up uintil the Enlightenment Period broke the back of the RCC's power.

Remember, Christianity wasn't spread peacfully to the European Nation's colonies, nor did it always spread through peaceful means through Europe in the first place as it poured into the power vacum left by the Roman Empire.

And I certainly don't have to go into details of the several Inquasitions and Crusades.

Considering that A. Muslim fanatics, terrorists or hardliners, make up a tiny fraction of the global Muslim population, and that B. most of the terrorists/hardliners are in still developing third-world nations (and/or areas still pretty much locked into the stone age), and C. Christianity is made to behave due to secular laws in developed countries, IMHO given some time Islam will mirror the Christianity of today in it's interactions with others, as well as internal concerns as well.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:02 AM
 
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So long as any religion and it's adherents condone the use of violence, there can be no religious peace.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:16 AM
 
Location: Lafayette, Louisiana
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So long as muslims celebrate suicide bombers, call for the death of those who they feel insult islam, personally execute those they feel insult islam, and execute people who dare to leave islam; then there can be no peace with the rest of the world and islam.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:33 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,909,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AxisMundi View Post
Islam acts today like Christianity did up uintil the Enlightenment Period broke the back of the RCC's power.
I have stated this from time to time. Islam today, 1000 years since its founding, is about the same place where Christianity was 1,000 years after its founding. Spoiled, has to have its way, ill-tempered, bullyish, manipulative and potentially DEADLY. I speak in terms of the religion encompassing ALL phases of life, mind you, and NOT how it is lived out personally where individuals can actually exemplify some positives as well as negatives. The unfortunate thing at this time is, you really CAN'T live as you want in Islamic countries because the law IS the religion and the religion IS the law. You can see the problem there.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:42 AM
 
4,529 posts, read 4,863,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I have stated this from time to time. Islam today, 1000 years since its founding, is about the same place where Christianity was 1,000 years after its founding. Spoiled, has to have its way, ill-tempered, bullyish, manipulative and potentially DEADLY. I speak in terms of the religion encompassing ALL phases of life, mind you, and NOT how it is lived out personally where individuals can actually exemplify some positives as well as negatives. The unfortunate thing at this time is, you really CAN'T live as you want in Islamic countries because the law IS the religion and the religion IS the law. You can see the problem there.
Great minds think alike

However, I would point out Turkey, a mostly Muslim country with a secular g'ment as an example of what disallowing religion in g'ment can do.

I am also reminded of the theopolitical power of the Church of England during our colonial period as well, and the horros that resulted there.
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Old 11-06-2009, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 25,568,966 times
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Sand, a muslim taxi driver can't be the yardstick for Islam as a whole
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