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Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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the way the Koran says Jesus was a good man and a prophet of God while maintaining he was neither crucified or arose from the dead. The problem isn't the lack of belief, but the fact that it means Jesus was a blatant liar, for he said himself that he was crucified and arose.
In my view there are only three possibilities:
1. Jesus was the Messiah talked about in the Jewish Bible (aka Old Testament)
2. Jesus was a liar who claimed to be something he wasn't. Since a prophet of God would not be a pathological liar this means he couldn't be a prophet.
3. The writers of the New Testament were propagandist trying to make Jesus out to be something he wasn't.
Now, what Jesus said about himself (in the New Testament)
"" Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. "" - Matthew 26:27/8
"" Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again "" - Matthew 20:18/9
What the Koran says about Jesus
"" That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them ""
Actually, we have no idea what Jesus said, since he never produced a book. You're quoting what Matthew attributed to him. (As to Jewish Scripture and the Messiah--it was patently not describing Jesus, who wasn't recognized as a messiah by anybody in his own lifetime. That all came later).
Your third possibility is the closest to what probably happened in the real world.
the way the Koran says Jesus was a good man and a prophet of God while maintaining he was neither crucified or arose from the dead. The problem isn't the lack of belief, but the fact that it means Jesus was a blatant liar, for he said himself that he was crucified and arose.
In my view there are only three possibilities:
1. Jesus was the Messiah talked about in the Jewish Bible (aka Old Testament)
2. Jesus was a liar who claimed to be something he wasn't. Since a prophet of God would not be a pathological liar this means he couldn't be a prophet.
3. The writers of the New Testament were propagandist trying to make Jesus out to be something he wasn't.
Now, what Jesus said about himself (in the New Testament)
"" Drink from it, all of you. This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins. "" - Matthew 26:27/8
"" Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem, and the Son of Man will be betrayed to the chief priests and to the scribes; and they will condemn Him to death, and deliver Him to the Gentiles to mock and to scourge and to crucify. And the third day He will rise again "" - Matthew 20:18/9
What the Koran says about Jesus
"" That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah.;- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise And there is none of the People of the Book but must believe in him before his death; and on the Day of Judgment he will be a witness against them ""
I'm with No. 3 In fact I think it's all but provable. So really anything based on what Jesus is supposed to have said about himself is doubtful and Since Muhammed knew less about Jesus that Paul did, and that is precious little, the Quran is hardly to be trusted on this.
P.s.
I congratulate you for setting out three correct options
"1. Jesus was the Messiah talked about in the Jewish Bible (aka Old Testament)
2. Jesus was a liar who claimed to be something he wasn't. Since a prophet of God would not be a pathological liar this means he couldn't be a prophet.
3. The writers of the New Testament were propagandist trying to make Jesus out to be something he wasn't."
Which is better than Lewis' 'Lord, Liar or Lunatic' options which leaves out the most likely option which is that the Gospels is not to be taken on trust as recounting what Jesus said and did. Which is why Lewis is a propagandising twister and you are a lot better than that.
Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 11-20-2009 at 05:14 AM..
Reason: Ps. Pat on the back. Fortunately Pat's not too heavy.
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