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Old 11-20-2009, 10:34 AM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,008 posts, read 10,825,822 times
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Has anyone ever gotten Muslims to actually have an honest debate with them about whether they have an inherently violent religion, or whether jihad and taxing non-believers has any place in modern society? Or, about why it is OK for Muslims to demonize and lambast other religions, but not the other way around (indeed, it is OK then to kill them)? If so, tell me, because I'm seriously having a hard time with muslim friends of mine to engage in a debate or try to explain with me on this. It's always "politics" and trying to skirt around the issue.

Are there any Muslims on this board who are willing to explain why it is OK for extreme acts in modern society? Are there any reformists who believe that the Koran is dare I say it, written in terms with the times and in today's world outdated or need to be thought of differently? Are there any out there who believe it is wrong for humans to hijack a religion for their own goals (like what is going on in Iran)?

Please, no "point out the wooden beam in your eye before picking at the splinter in mine" bull. I'm looking for answers.
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Old 11-20-2009, 10:57 AM
 
66 posts, read 85,480 times
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There are a handful of Muslims on the board....I'd be curious to see if any of them post here.
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Old 11-20-2009, 11:16 AM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,079,827 times
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Well, that does seem to be the problem with getting answers with any religion. You ask a question and what you get is dogma, not fact.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:08 PM
 
66 posts, read 85,480 times
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Are you willing to listen if we Christians answer? I've lurked long enough on this board to know that many atheists here have a history of willfull ignorance.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:22 PM
 
Location: US Empire, Pac NW
5,008 posts, read 10,825,822 times
Reputation: 4125
Quote:
Originally Posted by YouDon'tKnowMe View Post
Are you willing to listen if we Christians answer? I've lurked long enough on this board to know that many atheists here have a history of willfull ignorance.

With all due respect, I am looking for Muslims to reply, not Christians. And yes, I am willing to listen. I just have a sharp BS detector and will ask them to defend statements that they make with fact / backup. It is the scientific process of investigation, nothing more.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:51 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,439,147 times
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>>>.
Quote:
Originally Posted by eskercurve View Post
Has anyone ever gotten Muslims to actually have an honest debate with them about whether they have an inherently violent religion, or whether jihad and taxing non-believers has any place in modern society? Or, aboutwhy it is OK for Muslims to demonize and lambast other religions, but not the other way around (indeed, it is OK then to kill them)? If so, tell me, because I'm seriously having a hard time with muslim friends of mine to engage in a debate or try to explain with me on this. It's always "politics" and trying to skirt around the issue.

Are there any Muslims on this board who are willing to explain why it is OK for extreme acts in modern society? Are there any reformists who believe that the Koran is dare I say it, written in terms with the times and in today's world outdated or need to be thought of differently? Are there any out there who believe it is wrong for humans to hijack a religion for their own goals (like what is going on in Iran)?

Please, no "point out the wooden beam in your eye before picking at the splinter in mine" bull. I'm looking for answers.
<<<

Ive had many conversations with muslims. Muslims who practice a peaceful Islam, who go to prayers, help in the community, are active in interfaith. Those are the Muslims who abhor violence no matter who it comes from. Muslims who become fearful everytime something violent happens and pray it isn't a muslim this time.

Maybe you are having a hard time because of the tone you seem to be using here? Not all Muslims are terrorists, or Jihadists, or hate other religions. I will say that Islam does not have the only hand in the pot of violence, it is just the most recent.

I would also be more inclined to believe that the folks in Iran have little to no control over their government. We got a view of how little the Iranian govt. cares about its people when people were demonstrating in the streets and being arrested and killed for standing up to their government. Most Muslim countries are run by corrupt dictators who care little about anything but staying in power.

And it is a fact that the USA has meddled quite a bit in Muslim countries. We caused the overthrow of a democratic government in Iran so the Shah could be put back in power. We supported Iraq against Iran in the Iran/Iraq war. We went into Iraq after we were lied to by our president about weapons of mass destruction and we left al queda to rebuild in Afganistan. We talk about human rights but we give support to totalitarian regimes like Saudia Arabia which is where most of the Wahabi influence comes from and is the form of Islam that these Terrorists follow. The decisions our country has made concerning Islamic countries seems to always be because of oil and our wanting to be in control of oil.
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Old 11-20-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Camberville
12,080 posts, read 16,842,983 times
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I have had conversations on that topic with Muslims all the time- including Muslims raised in the US, Muslims from Asia or the Middle East, and Muslim converts (a Jewish convert at my Jewish college!). When you start off a discussion with an accusatory tone, how do you expect productive conversation?
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Old 11-20-2009, 01:59 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 22,042,711 times
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Let's not forget that Christianity is every bit an "inherently violent religion" as Islam. It's merely quiescent at this point in time.
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