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Old 01-02-2010, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Egypt
125 posts, read 263,401 times
Reputation: 24

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Quote:
Originally Posted by LastProphet View Post
Whoa alot of muslim and muhammed slamming in this thread. I think it's rude to slam on peoples religion,
I donít attack any religion, I only state that extremism and violence is humansí faults from any religion,
Quote:
However, I see that this is about extremism which is advocated by "fake" "paper" muslims not real muslims.
You say the same thing (Americans killing innocents are not real Americans, Christians killing innocents are no real christians, why do you give yourself this right and deny it for us (no offence)

Quote:
Also, muhammed does indeed say in the Koran to "kill the infadel".
Can you tell me where in the holy Qurían states to kill an infidel just because he is an infidel?,
Or you want the holy Quran to tell the soldiers in war ďplease be kind to the other soldier, donít kill him)!




Anyway, Thanks for not flaming and calmly debating.

Regards,
mahmoud
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Old 01-02-2010, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Egypt
125 posts, read 263,401 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
From the Sunnah. The hadiths that Muhammad used to corrupt the principles of peace and launch his bloody conquest. There are 199 references to jihad in the most standard collection of hadith, Sahih al-Bukhari, all assume that jihad means warfare.

Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)
Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Book 52

Muslim traditionalists see that the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islamic Peace (Dar al-Salam). . . in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails . . . and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited. The presumption is that by natural law these domains will compete and fighting is inevitable . . . therefore the duty of jihad will continue (interrupted only by truces) . . . until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule.

The stumbling block is the complete lack of a compromise position in Islam from which to establish tolerance for diversity. There isn't any in their raison d'etre.. The Islamic definition of tolerance is dhimmitude under ISLAMIC RULE . . . everything else is a temporary TRUCE state. They are very PATIENT and they view us as an INFANT culture and society compared to theirs.They truly do expect the whole world to eventually be under Islamic rule. They are in no hurry. So which, exactly, are the non-extremists??
“Dar alharb” ,and “dar alselm” are some scholars terms not the prophet terms (pbuh)

The holy Quran clearly orders the prophet to accept peace when the other enemy offer it even if the enemy is deceiving,


61. But if the enemy incline towards peace, do thou (also) incline towards peace, and trust in God. for He is One that heareth and knoweth (all things).

62. Should they intend to deceive thee,- verily God sufficeth thee: He it is That hath strengthened thee with His aid and with (the company of) the Believers; (holy Qur’an, chapter 8)


The only two reasons for war in Islam is to defend the country, or to the right of peaceful preaching in the other country

If the other country does attack the Muslim country or prohibits any Muslims from peacefully preaching, then this is the only reasons for war, and again it’s on soldiers only.


And why you are keeping taking about the Islamic rule in the Muslim state as if it denies any other non moslim in the state, it gives them full right of keeping their religion,, building temples and churches, it even do not force them to join the country army,

They pay a very small tax called “jezai”, which is smaller than what muslims pay (zakah), cause “zakah” is a percent on the money, while “jezia” is a small amount only on working adult non moslims,

Other taxes are called “kharag” which are on Muslims and non Muslims

What’s wrong about a country with majority of moslims to be ruled by its law, it’s the majority decision,

The prophet clearly stated that any muslim who hurt any (thimme) it is a if he hurt him (the prophet).

He clearly sayed that he will protect them by himself.

Regards,
mahmoud

Last edited by mahmoud mrt; 01-02-2010 at 02:43 PM..
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Old 01-02-2010, 07:23 PM
 
40,066 posts, read 26,744,474 times
Reputation: 6050
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahmoud mrt View Post
The only two reasons for war in Islam is to defend the country, or to the right of peaceful preaching in the other country

If the other country does attack the Muslim country or prohibits any Muslims from peacefully preaching, then this is the only reasons for war, and again itís on soldiers only.
We all acknowledge that there is heterogeneity and dispute within ANY religion. But the troubling and distinguishing characteristics of Islam are

its brutality and Mafia-like rules for control of its adherents;

the existence of large segments (not just a few extremists) who are ready, willing and able to enforce that control through extreme brutality;

the obligation to deceive the infidel an any way that will aid the cause of jihad (Dar al-Harb);

the reality that as long as Israel exists on what they consider Allah's land they are in Jihad (Dar al-Harb);

that there are NO innocents during Dar al-Harb that are Not Muslims or under Muslim rule, etc.

Surely you see that his creates an impossible situation for any of us infidels (who according to Islam are not innocent) to place ANY TRUST in Islam apologetics . . . or in ANY EXCUSES for inaction or lack of public demonstrations of disapproval and revolt within the Muslim communities. Islam and the communities of Islam have NO CREDIBILITY.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:46 PM
 
Location: Florida
595 posts, read 739,830 times
Reputation: 266
I have another admittedly odd twist on the subject of exremeists an opinion perhaps not shared with data folks. Firstly, as an ex Viet Nam vet I studied the stategies of combat and even a close link to insurgents in Iraq and Afganistan ie, sniper fire, roadside bombs and house to house (urban war-
fare). Let me make my point that with the advent of al qaeda and its Jihad the US has trained tens of thousands of military,honed their skills,introduced high tech weapons (clothing,accessories ie,infrared night goggles,laser guided rifles ) Plated Humvees,CRAM mini-gun,AK47 etc. Al Qaeda
has turned us into to a mondern killing machine. Their actions have empowered the US and allies to rid the world of these evil pathologicals who "use "Allah to front for theirkillings of mostly women and children ans unarmed civilian men. I personally hate seeing these young radicals falling victim
to those (who stay like cowards in hidding) that send them out on suicide missions to do their dirty albeit amoral work. The radicals do not represent the ancient and respected religion of Islam they dishonor) the prophet Mohammed (their praised one) ,the Quran and displease Allah (God)

Last edited by DASULAR17; 01-03-2010 at 06:52 PM.. Reason: Format
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:22 AM
 
Location: Egypt
125 posts, read 263,401 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
We all acknowledge that there is heterogeneity and dispute within ANY religion. But the troubling and distinguishing characteristics of Islam are

its brutality and Mafia-like rules for control of its adherents;
No, the prophet used democracy regarding any topic, he always consulted the people regarding an civilian issue,

38. Those who hearken to their Lord, and establish regular Prayer; who (conduct) their affairs by mutual Consultation; who spend out of what We bestow on them for Sustenance; (Holy Qur’an, chapter 42)

159. It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for ((Allah)'s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him). (Holy Qur’an, chapter 3)

Some examples When he wanted to make an agreement to give the “Taef” Tribe half the fruits of Medina, he waited for the people and they refused, so didn’t accept the agreement

In the battle of Badr, which was defensive to defend moslims for being eliminated, he changed the whole strategy of the battled on the opinion of a normal soldier

Also in the battle of Ahuhd, , which was for the same reason, he changed the whole strategy based on peoples opinion against his own opinion , and when moslims were defeated in this battle, God in the holy Qur’an ordered him to keep consulting them and take their opinion regardless of any defeat, with this verse which I mentioned before:

159. It is part of the Mercy of Allah that thou dost deal gently with them Wert thou severe or harsh-hearted, they would have broken away from about thee: so pass over (Their faults), and ask for ((Allah)'s) forgiveness for them; and consult them in affairs (of moment). Then, when thou hast Taken a decision put thy trust in Allah. For Allah loves those who put their trust (in Him). (Holy Qur’an, chapter 3)


Regarding the laws, there is direct laws form the holy Qur’an which are few by the way, and there are many topics that accept different opinions cause the interpretations of the traditions differs regarding the different circumstances of every country and society.

Quote:
the existence of large segments (not just a few extremists) who are ready, willing and able to enforce that control through extreme brutality;
We always disagree on the percentage, moslims are 1.5 bilion, we see these extremist in Iraq, Afgabistan, but they are few, 1000 terrorists ready to do crimes can do horrible things, so they are hunted by the armed from all over the world. When you talk about large segment, you don’t count the percentage based on the population, if you count based on population, it will be very few indeed not even counted

Any way, again the whole casualties of the so called moslim extremists did not reach in the west 4000 in decades, while the murder crimes in the west reach tens of thousands every year

I’m glad the no more operations in the west for a long time now , and I pray that any operation will be stopped , I hate those terrorists, and I wish they all die exactly as you wish.

We must differentiate bet. “salafees” and terrorists, “Salafees “ are fundamentalists, I don’t agree with them in many topics, but they’re not terrorists.

Quote:
the obligation to deceive the infidel an any way that will aid the cause of jihad (Dar al-Harb);
Define Deceive, deceive is not inside the country of the enemy, it’ not against the economy or innocents, Intelligence agencies all over the world use deception to gain information

The US use horrible ways to destabilize enemy countries

Islam refuse this, the Prophet (pbuh) did not order moslims in Mekka who were hiding their belief to do any disturbance in Mekka, as long as they are citizens in Mekka, they should not harm the society in any way

Quote:
the reality that as long as Israel exists on what they consider Allah's land they are in Jihad (Dar al-Harb);
There’s a big portion of Muslims who think this way, but this is on Israel only, and on soldiers only, the first 4 wars bet. Arabs ad Israel till 1973 and after only involved soldiers from the Arab side, while Israel attacked civilians brutally, and still is.

Some portion support attacking Israel civilians, including Hezbullah, but this is a reaction to Israel attacking civilians.

Any way I don’t agree with any idea of attacking civilians, I disgrace it and hate it, and I proved to you form text based that this is strictly prohibited in Islam.

Quote:
that there are NO innocents during Dar al-Harb that are Not Muslims or under Muslim rule, etc.
Again I proved to you from the holy Qur’an and prophet’s traditions that this is wrong, this is not the case, and this was not the way in wars bet. Moslims and other countries for most of the history.

Quote:
Surely you see that his creates an impossible situation for any of us infidels (who according to Islam are not innocent) to place ANY TRUST in Islam apologetics . . . or in ANY EXCUSES for inaction or lack of public demonstrations of disapproval and revolt within the Muslim communities. Islam and the communities of Islam have NO CREDIBILITY.
You keep shouting with capital letters and bold, I guess this is the end of discussion with you (no offense at all)


Regards,
mahmoud
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Old 01-06-2010, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Egypt
125 posts, read 263,401 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by DASULAR17 View Post
I have another admittedly odd twist on the subject of exremeists an opinion perhaps not shared with data folks. Firstly, as an ex Viet Nam vet I studied the stategies of combat and even a close link to insurgents in Iraq and Afganistan ie, sniper fire, roadside bombs and house to house (urban war-
fare). Let me make my point that with the advent of al qaeda and its Jihad the US has trained tens of thousands of military,honed their skills,introduced high tech weapons (clothing,accessories ie,infrared night goggles,laser guided rifles ) Plated Humvees,CRAM mini-gun,AK47 etc. Al Qaeda
has turned us into to a mondern killing machine. Their actions have empowered the US and allies to rid the world of these evil pathologicals who "use "Allah to front for theirkillings of mostly women and children ans unarmed civilian men. I personally hate seeing these young radicals falling victim
to those (who stay like cowards in hidding) that send them out on suicide missions to do their dirty albeit amoral work. The radicals do not represent the ancient and respected religion of Islam they dishonor) the prophet Mohammed (their praised one) ,the Quran and displease Allah (God)

I admire your words, thanks, I hope many are like you

Regards,
mahmoud
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Old 01-06-2010, 08:40 AM
 
Location: Pawnee Nation
7,525 posts, read 14,907,840 times
Reputation: 7014
Quote:
Originally Posted by mahmoud mrt View Post
No, the prophet used democracy regarding any topic, he always consulted the people regarding an civilian issue,
What difference does it make what your prophet did? what matters today is what his believers do. and what they do is repugnant.
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