U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-23-2009, 11:26 AM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 678,401 times
Reputation: 50

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
No, he is completely justified, islam condoles the murder of evil/wrongdoers.
Well he's wrong, if you only want to believe his words then go ahead. But this is like me saying that Christianity supports rasicm, for example 90-95% of South Africans are Christians but on top of that the white people degraded the black people for 46 years, and both of them believed in the same religion. So does that make me believe that Christianty supports rasicm? No, because im not an ignorant, so you should be more open minded too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-23-2009, 06:40 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,736,218 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
Well he's wrong, if you only want to believe his words then go ahead. But this is like me saying that Christianity supports rasicm, for example 90-95% of South Africans are Christians but on top of that the white people degraded the black people for 46 years, and both of them believed in the same religion. So does that make me believe that Christianty supports rasicm? No, because im not an ignorant, so you should be more open minded too.
Except the quran clearly states that non believers are evil/wrong doers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Unless they are non believers....

Quran 2:254

Yusuf Ali:
O ye who believe! Spend out of (the bounties) We have provided for you, before the Day comes when no bargaining (Will avail), nor friendship nor intercession. Those who reject Faith they are the wrong-doers.

Zohurul Hoque:
O you who believe! spend out of what We have provided you with before there comes the Day in which there is no bartering, neither friendship nor any intercession. And the Unbelievers- they are the wrongdoers.

T. J. Irving: You who believe, spend some of what We have provided you with before a day comes along in which there will be no bartering, friendship, nor any intercession! Disbelievers are such evildoers.

T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:
O you who believe! Spend of that with which We have provided for you, before a Day comes when there will be no bargaining, nor friendship, nor intercession. And it is the disbelievers who are the Zālimūn (wrong-doers, etc.).

M. Pickthall:
O ye who believe! spend of that wherewith We have provided you ere a day come when there will be no trafficking, nor friendship, nor intercession. The disbelievers, they are the wrong-doers.

M.H. Shakir:
O you who believe! spend out of what We have given you before the day comes in which there is no bargaining, neither any friendship nor intercession, and the unbelievers — they are the unjust.


If you are a wrong doer, you are not innocent in the eyes of those who believe in the quran.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2009, 09:19 AM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 678,401 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
Except the quran clearly states that non believers are evil/wrong doers
Man these verses were said during times of war and it wasn't refferring to now, you have to understand, because the verses you listed does not refer to what muslims should do today.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2009, 10:48 AM
 
36 posts, read 49,468 times
Reputation: 16
Islam, a religion of mercy, does not permit terrorism. In the Quran, God has said:
“God does not forbid you from showing kindness and dealing justly with those who have not fought you about religion and have not driven you out of your homes. God loves just dealers.” (Quran 60:8)
The Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, used to prohibit soldiers from killing women and children,and he would advise them: “...Do not betray, do not be excessive, do not kill a newborn child.”
And he also said: “Whoever has killed a person having a treaty with the Muslims shall not smell the fragrance of Paradise, though its fragrance is found for a span of forty years.”
Also, the Prophet Muhammad has forbidden punishment with fire.[
He once listed murder as the second of the major sins,[ and he even warned that on the Day of Judgment, “The first cases to be adjudicated between people on the Day of Judgment will be those of bloodshed.
Muslims are even encouraged to be kind to animals and are forbidden to hurt them. Once the Prophet Muhammad said: “A woman was punished because she imprisoned a cat until it died. On account of this, she was doomed to Hell. While she imprisoned it, she did not give the cat food or drink, nor did she free it to eat the insects of the earth.”
He also said that a man gave a very thirsty dog a drink, so God forgave his sins for this action. The Prophet, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, was asked, “Messenger of God, are we rewarded for kindness towards animals?” He said: “There is a reward for kindness to every living animal or human.”
Additionally, while taking the life of an animal for food, Muslims are commanded to do so in a manner that causes the least amount of fright and suffering possible. The Prophet Muhammad said: “When you slaughter an animal, do so in the best way. One should sharpen his knife to reduce the suffering of the animal.”
In light of these and other Islamic texts, the act of inciting terror in the hearts of defenseless civilians, the wholesale destruction of buildings and properties, the bombing and maiming of innocent men, women, and children are all forbidden and detestable acts according to Islam and the Muslims. Muslims follow a religion of peace, mercy, and forgiveness, and the vast majority have nothing to do with the violent events some have associated with Muslims. If an individual Muslim were to commit an act of terrorism, this person would be guilty of violating the laws of Islam.


Footnotes: Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #1744, and Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #3015.

Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #1731, and Al-Tirmizi, #1408.

Narrated in Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #3166, and Ibn Majah, #2686.

Narrated in Abu-Dawood, #2675.

] Narrated in Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #6871, and Saheeh Muslim, #88.

This means killing and injuring.

Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #1678, and Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #6533.

Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #2422, and Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #2365.

This saying of Muhammad has been mentioned in more detail on this page. Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #2244, and Saheeh Al-Bukhari, #2466.

Narrated in Saheeh Muslim, #1955, and Al-Tirmizi, #1409
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2009, 10:51 AM
 
36 posts, read 49,468 times
Reputation: 16



It is a common misconception with some non-Muslims that Islam would not have millions of adherents all over the world, if it had not been spread by the use of force.
The following points will make it clear, that far from being spread by the sword, it was the inherent force of truth, reason and logic that was responsible for the rapid spread of Islam.
Islam has always given respect and freedom of religion to all faiths. Freedom of religion is ordained in the Quran itself:
“There shall be no compulsion in [acceptance of] the religion. The right course has become clear from the wrong.” (Quran 2:256)
The noted historian De Lacy O’Leary wrote:“History makes it clear however, that the legend of fanatical Muslims sweeping through the world and forcing Islam at the point of the sword upon conquered races is one of the most fantastically absurd myths that historians have ever repeated.”
The famous historian, Thomas Carlyle, in his book Heroes and Hero worship, refers to this misconception about the spread of Islam: “The sword indeed, but where will you get your sword? Every new opinion, at its starting is precisely in a minority of one; in one man’s head alone. There it dwells as yet. One man alone of the whole world believes it, there is one man against all men. That he takes a sword and tries to propagate with that will do little for him. You must get your sword! On the whole, a thing will propagate itself as it can.”
If Islam was spread by the sword, it was the sword of intellect and convincing arguments. It is this sword that conquers the hearts and minds of people. The Quran says in this connection:
“Invite to the way of your Lord with wisdom and good instruction, and argue with them in a way that is best.” (Quran 16:125)
The facts speak for themselves

· Indonesia is the country that has the largest number of Muslims in the world, and the majority of people in Malaysia are Muslims. But, no Muslim army ever went to Indonesia or Malaysia. It is an established historical fact that Indonesia entered Islam not due to war, but because of its moral message. Despite the disappearance of Islamic government from many regions once ruled by it, their original inhabitants have remained Muslims. Moreover, they carried the message of truth, inviting others to it as well, and in so doing endured harm, affliction and oppression. The same can be said for those in the regions of Syria and Jordan, Egypt, Iraq, North Africa, Asia, the Balkans and in Spain. This shows that the effect of Islam on the population was one of moral conviction, in contrast to occupation by western colonialists, finally compelled to leave lands whose peoples held only memories of affliction, sorrow, subjugation and oppression.
· Muslims ruled Spain (Andalusia) for about 800 years. During this period the Christians and Jews enjoyed freedom to practice their respective religions, and this is a documented historical fact.
· Christian and Jewish minorities have survived in the Muslim lands of the Middle East for centuries. Countries such as Egypt, Morocco, Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, and Jordan all have significant Christian and Jewish populations.
· Muslims ruled India for about a thousand years, and therefore had the power to force each and every non-Muslim of India to convert to Islam, but they did not, and thus more than 80% of the Indian population remains non-Muslim.
· Similarly, Islam spread rapidly on the East Coast of Africa. And likewise no Muslim army was ever dispatched to the East Coast of Africa.
· An article in Reader’s Digest ‘Almanac’, yearbook 1986, gives the statistics of the increase of the percentage of the major religions of the world in half a century from 1934 to 1984. This article also appeared in The Plain Truth magazine. At the top was Islam, which increased by 235%, while Christianity had increased by 47%. During this fifty-year period, there was no “Islamic conquest” yet Islam spread at an extraordinary rate.
· Today the fastest growing religion in America and Europe is Islam. The Muslims in these lands are a minority. The only sword they have in their possession is the sword of truth. It is this sword that is converting thousands to Islam.
· Islamic law protects the privileged status of minorities, and that is why non-Muslim places of worship have flourished all over the Islamic world. Islamic law also allows non-Muslim minorities to set up their own courts, which implement family laws drawn up by the minorities themselves. The life and property of all citizens in an Islamic state are considered sacred whether they are Muslims or not.
Conclusion

It is clear, therefore, that Islam did not spread by the sword. The “sword of Islam” did not convert all the non-Muslim minorities in Muslim countries. In India, where Muslims ruled for 800 years, they are still a minority. In the U.S.A., Islam is the fastest growing religion and has over six million followers.
In his book The World’s Religions, Huston Smith discusses how the prophet Muhammad granted freedom of religion to the Jews and Christians under Muslim rule:
The Prophet had a document drawn up in which he stipulated that Jews and Christians “shall be protected from all insults and harm; they shall have an equal right with our own people to our assistance and good offices,” and further, “they shall practice their religion as freely as the Muslims.”
Smith points out that Muslims regard that document as the first charter of freedom of conscience in human history and the authoritative model for those of every subsequent Muslim state.


Footnotes: In his book Islam at the Crossroads, p.8.

Quoted in The World’s Religions by Huston Smith, Harper Collins, 1991, p. 256
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2009, 04:49 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,736,218 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
Man these verses were said during times of war and it wasn't refferring to now, you have to understand, because the verses you listed does not refer to what muslims should do today.
I read the quran a few yeas ago, but I do not recall it saying that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2009, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 678,401 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
I read the quran a few yeas ago, but I do not recall it saying that.
Some verses are reffered to today about self defence and other stuff similar to that. But there is also a lot of verses that are related to the wars during the muslims used to have.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2009, 10:43 AM
 
Location: Sugar Land
232 posts, read 629,461 times
Reputation: 142
Again, you really cant separate Terrorism from Islam. It is in their core teachings. Even here in the USA, they have schools setup that teach hate towards non-Muslims. If this is not the case why is there no religious freedom in any islamic countries?
Again the west need to review immigration policies to prevent these "wonderful" people from coming to the land of the infidels.


True History of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran
Nigeria banker fears son is alleged plane attacker - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091226/ap_on_re_us/us_airliner_attack - broken link)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2009, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 678,401 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier1774 View Post
Again, you really cant separate Terrorism from Islam. It is in their core teachings. Even here in the USA, they have schools setup that teach hate towards non-Muslims. If this is not the case why is there no religious freedom in any islamic countries?
Again the west need to review immigration policies to prevent these "wonderful" people from coming to the land of the infidels.


True History of Islam, Mohammed and the Koran
Nigeria banker fears son is alleged plane attacker - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20091226/ap_on_re_us/us_airliner_attack - broken link)
Because thats how they roll, and this would change throught the years, you cant change it today or tommorow, the Western countries used to be strict with Christianity too, but no one tried to invade their countries to make them secular, things changed by itself. i bet ya anything the Christian leaders in Europe & America wish that their countries followed the teachings of Chrsitianity.

Even Chrsitians have no religious freedom in the middle east and Africa. Their religious leaders lie to them about Islam and other religions, and if they try to convert to Islam, judaism, etc they could get killed for it, so some of them do it secretly.

The first link you listed there is bias, thats for sure, it will obviously not tell you anything positive about Islam, if you want to actulley learn about Islam you should go to a muslim forum or ask someone who converted to Islam.

This is like me listing this site for you, Answering Christianity. Islam's Answers To Trinitarian Beliefs., i know it will not have anything positive about Christianity, so im not going to be an ignorant like you, by accusing Chrsitianity of bad things, because i respect it unlike you.

As for the Nigerian guy, he is with Al-Qaeda and we don't agree with the teahings of Al-Qaeda because they target innocent people, they dont only kill westerners, but they kill muslims too.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-26-2009, 11:26 AM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,264,999 times
Reputation: 12767
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
..............As for the Nigerian guy, he is with Al-Qaeda and we don't agree with the teahings of Al-Qaeda because they target innocent people, they dont only kill westerners, but they kill muslims too.
Are you suggesting that if Al-Quada only killed westerners and not "muslims too" that Islam is OK with this? Are you ok with this?

I am no theologian but it seems to me that in practice Christians leave vengence to the Lord and in Islam Mohammud instructed his followers to go out and execute vengence against those who do not follow Islam.

Is this generalization incorrect?

If Islam is a "religion of peace" then why is so much of Shariah law based on violent punishment and why does Islam want to force Western Countries to fall into step with Shariah law to accomodate them?

Do you agree with "honor killings"?

Do you agree with the mutilation of young girls genitals against their will?

It seems to me, on the face of it, that Shariah law is an endorsement of physical violence against women by men in the name of the Islamic religion.

If this is wrong please explain.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Islam
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top