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Old 12-26-2009, 12:07 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,623 times
Reputation: 50

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Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
Are you suggesting that if Al-Quada only killed westerners and not "muslims too" that Islam is OK with this? Are you ok with this?

I am no theologian but it seems to me that in practice Christians leave vengence to the Lord and in Islam Mohammud instructed his followers to go out and execute vengence against those who do not follow Islam.

Is this generalization incorrect?

If Islam is a "religion of peace" then why is so much of Shariah law based on violent punishment and why does Islam want to force Western Countries to fall into step with Shariah law to accomodate them?

Do you agree with "honor killings"?

Do you agree with the mutilation of young girls genitals against their will?

It seems to me, on the face of it, that Shariah law is an endorsement of physical violence against women by men in the name of the Islamic religion.

If this is wrong please explain.
1. No its not okay to kill westerners, what i was trying to say is if Al-Qaeda commits a terrorist attack on westerners dont blame the attacks on muslims and Islam, because Al-Qaeda are going against the teachings of Islam.

2. Just read what Soon posted, it tells you how Islam spread without the sword.

3. Almost all muslim countries today don't even follow the Shariah anymore, Saudi Arabia only follows 60%-70%, the Sharia law was fine during and after prophet Muhammads(pbuh) death for a really long time, because it was accepted at the time, and even people who believed in other religions didn't see anything wrong with it, but since things move forward, you can't really enforce Sharia law 100%, and these muslims in the west who want the Sharia laws, they dont want things like stronings, execution of homos, etc. They just want things that would settle the marriges, divorces, general things, etc.

4. Honor killing is a cultural thing, its not islamic, even christians, jews, etc commit this act sometimes.

5. No obviously not, because this is pretty much the girl's choice, its not right to force it on them.

Last edited by mrhman92; 12-26-2009 at 01:00 PM..
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:02 PM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,881 posts, read 31,761,982 times
Reputation: 12625
December 27, 2009, 5:45 am....60 Injured as Muslims Attack Christian Worshipers During Christmas Prayers...
Pakistan Christian Post

Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:50....An Islamist militant group based in Russia's North Caucases has claimed the killing last month of an Orthodox priest who was an outspoken critic of Islam.
iafrica.com | news | world news Islamists kill priest

December 25, 2009.... Attacks disrupt Christian, Shiite rituals; 25 killed.
Bombs mar holy days in Iraq -- chicagotribune.com

Fri Dec 25, 12:59 am...A teenage suicide bomber blew himself up outside a Pakistan Shiite shrine on the main road from Islamabad to the international airport Thursday, killing a six-year-old girl.
Teen suicide bomber kills child at Pakistan shrine - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091225/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanunrestblast_20091225055930 - broken link)

2009.12.24 (Hilla, Iraq) - A crowded bus station is the target of Sunni bombers, who leave twenty-five Iraqis dead and nearly one hundred more in agony.

2009.12.24 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber on a horse car murders eight innocent people.

Weekly Jihad Report
Dec 12 - Dec 18
Jihad Attacks: 42...Dead bodies 182.... Critically Injured: ...362
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

Merry Christmas..
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Old 12-26-2009, 06:44 PM
 
Location: Sugar Land
232 posts, read 628,962 times
Reputation: 142
I think you need to spend some time reading about Christianity...
there is no way you can deny that facts that muhammed killed 10's of millions of innocent people that did not agreed with his mumbo jumbo...

there are many converts from Islam and they become targets. Because that is not allowed in islam...
Walid Shoebat - Biography


Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
Because thats how they roll, and this would change throught the years, you cant change it today or tommorow, the Western countries used to be strict with Christianity too, but no one tried to invade their countries to make them secular, things changed by itself. i bet ya anything the Christian leaders in Europe & America wish that their countries followed the teachings of Chrsitianity.

Even Chrsitians have no religious freedom in the middle east and Africa. Their religious leaders lie to them about Islam and other religions, and if they try to convert to Islam, judaism, etc they could get killed for it, so some of them do it secretly.

The first link you listed there is bias, thats for sure, it will obviously not tell you anything positive about Islam, if you want to actulley learn about Islam you should go to a muslim forum or ask someone who converted to Islam.

This is like me listing this site for you, Answering Christianity. Islam's Answers To Trinitarian Beliefs., i know it will not have anything positive about Christianity, so im not going to be an ignorant like you, by accusing Chrsitianity of bad things, because i respect it unlike you.

As for the Nigerian guy, he is with Al-Qaeda and we don't agree with the teahings of Al-Qaeda because they target innocent people, they dont only kill westerners, but they kill muslims too.
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Old 12-26-2009, 07:01 PM
 
29,988 posts, read 37,210,127 times
Reputation: 12760
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
1. No its not okay to kill westerners, what i was trying to say is if Al-Qaeda commits a terrorist attack on westerners dont blame the attacks on muslims and Islam, because Al-Qaeda are going against the teachings of Islam.

2. Just read what Soon posted, it tells you how Islam spread without the sword.

3. Almost all muslim countries today don't even follow the Shariah anymore, Saudi Arabia only follows 60%-70%, the Sharia law was fine during and after prophet Muhammads(pbuh) death for a really long time, because it was accepted at the time, and even people who believed in other religions didn't see anything wrong with it, but since things move forward, you can't really enforce Sharia law 100%, and these muslims in the west who want the Sharia laws, they dont want things like stronings, execution of homos, etc. They just want things that would settle the marriges, divorces, general things, etc.

4. Honor killing is a cultural thing, its not islamic, even christians, jews, etc commit this act sometimes.

5. No obviously not, because this is pretty much the girl's choice, its not right to force it on them.
But you did not say...you said not only Westerners but Muslims as well. Very revealing. Backpeddling now, no credibility. next.

I read what Soon wrote. Your point? These countries may not have been taken by the sword but Muslims there are turning radical and taking up swords. Attacks on: Mumbai, on Western hotels in Indonesia including a failed assasination attack upon a U.S. President., and now it looks like the Phillipines is in the process of becoming a breeding ground for terrorist activity. What about the riots in France by young Muslims several summers ago? Those caused a great deal of damage. A sword comes in many forms.

I know no other religion other than Islam, especially in the United States, in which honor killings are performed in the name of that religion. And I do not believe it is entirely truthful to suggest that Islam is not also a culture.

How does a pre-pubescent girl knowingly and responsibly give consent for a proceedure that mutilates her body and endangers her health for the long term (via infection, etc.)? NO, my BS meter goes off on that and other explainations. The record of Islam and the condoned abuse of women speaks for itself.

Why should any western government make exceptions in their national laws for Sharia? Why can Muslims not follow their religion while respecting the laws of Western countries? And, if they do not like the laws of Western countries then why do they not choose to live in countries that are already practicing Sharia?

Last edited by lifelongMOgal; 12-26-2009 at 07:12 PM..
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,623 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by sanspeur View Post
December 27, 2009, 5:45 am....60 Injured as Muslims Attack Christian Worshipers During Christmas Prayers...
Pakistan Christian Post

Sat, 26 Dec 2009 07:50....An Islamist militant group based in Russia's North Caucases has claimed the killing last month of an Orthodox priest who was an outspoken critic of Islam.
iafrica.com | news | world news Islamists kill priest

December 25, 2009.... Attacks disrupt Christian, Shiite rituals; 25 killed.
Bombs mar holy days in Iraq -- chicagotribune.com

Fri Dec 25, 12:59 am...A teenage suicide bomber blew himself up outside a Pakistan Shiite shrine on the main road from Islamabad to the international airport Thursday, killing a six-year-old girl.
Teen suicide bomber kills child at Pakistan shrine - Yahoo! News (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20091225/wl_sthasia_afp/pakistanunrestblast_20091225055930 - broken link)

2009.12.24 (Hilla, Iraq) - A crowded bus station is the target of Sunni bombers, who leave twenty-five Iraqis dead and nearly one hundred more in agony.

2009.12.24 (Kandahar, Afghanistan) - A Shahid suicide bomber on a horse car murders eight innocent people.

Weekly Jihad Report
Dec 12 - Dec 18
Jihad Attacks: 42...Dead bodies 182.... Critically Injured: ...362
Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

Merry Christmas..
1. That was a mistake, and the government was careless which resulted in dire consequences.

2. You cant really blame everything on the islamists in Russia, because the government makes mistakes too, so both of them are wrong.

3. The Iraqi Chrsitians lived in peace under Saddam, but you're government decided it was better to invade the country and they did, so you should not blame this attack on muslims, because its your government's fault.

4. This is wrong, but these conflicts also happen bettween christians of diffrent sects in Africa, Asia and the middle east.

5. Well i think you would have to blame this on your government, because bombings were not common before the war.

6. Well at least under the Taliban there was no suicide bombings, people lived in peace.

Merry Christmas to you too.
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Old 12-26-2009, 10:59 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,623 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by xavier1774 View Post
I think you need to spend some time reading about Christianity...
there is no way you can deny that facts that muhammed killed 10's of millions of innocent people that did not agreed with his mumbo jumbo...

there are many converts from Islam and they become targets. Because that is not allowed in islam...
Walid Shoebat - Biography
I have already read about Christianity, and no Muhammed didnt kill millions of people. The other thing is, Chrisitians who convert to Islam in Middle east, Asia & Africa live in fear because they could get executed by their family members.
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Old 12-26-2009, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,623 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by lifelongMOgal View Post
But you did not say...you said not only Westerners but Muslims as well. Very revealing. Backpeddling now, no credibility. next.

I read what Soon wrote. Your point? These countries may not have been taken by the sword but Muslims there are turning radical and taking up swords. Attacks on: Mumbai, on Western hotels in Indonesia including a failed assasination attack upon a U.S. President., and now it looks like the Phillipines is in the process of becoming a breeding ground for terrorist activity. What about the riots in France by young Muslims several summers ago? Those caused a great deal of damage. A sword comes in many forms.

I know no other religion other than Islam, especially in the United States, in which honor killings are performed in the name of that religion. And I do not believe it is entirely truthful to suggest that Islam is not also a culture.

How does a pre-pubescent girl knowingly and responsibly give consent for a proceedure that mutilates her body and endangers her health for the long term (via infection, etc.)? NO, my BS meter goes off on that and other explainations. The record of Islam and the condoned abuse of women speaks for itself.

Why should any western government make exceptions in their national laws for Sharia? Why can Muslims not follow their religion while respecting the laws of Western countries? And, if they do not like the laws of Western countries then why do they not choose to live in countries that are already practicing Sharia?
1. Im going to repeat this again, Al-Qaeda goes against teachings of Islam it dosent matter who they kill, you cant really force me to support terrorism because im against it. Its wrong.

2. The attacks on Mumbai was wrong, but this is not a religious thing, there's a proxy war going on bettween Pakistan and India for sometime.

The bombing of western hotels in Indonesia was completly wrong and that was something Al-Qaeda would do, and im totally against it.

Muslims get prosecuted in the Philipines and this is what happens if you don't give them their freedom

3. Honour killing is a cultural thing, its commited by Muslims, Chrsitians, Jews, etc who live in the Middle east, Africa and Asia. I know its wrong but it will not go away anytime soon.

4. In Islam its the girl's descision, so that means you cant force it on them. And doing it by force is wrong.

5. Most Muslims don't want to have Sharia laws in the west, but you asked me what types of Sharia laws they would want and i answered it to you.

How can they go against your laws if they're commited to their religion, their religion have nothing to do with you law, it does not harm your law.

Well they come here for better life and education.
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:24 AM
 
Location: Victoria, BC.
30,881 posts, read 31,761,982 times
Reputation: 12625
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
1. That was a mistake, and the government was careless which resulted in dire consequences.
Mistake? Yeah right, Muslims make a lot of mistakes.

Quote:
2. You cant really blame everything on the islamists in Russia, because the government makes mistakes too, so both of them are wrong.
What, another mistake?
Quote:
3. The Iraqi Chrsitians lived in peace under Saddam, but you're government decided it was better to invade the country and they did, so you should not blame this attack on muslims, because its your government's fault.
It's the Muslims doing all the killing, and it's the US soldiers trying to stop it....Not my government, by the way, I'm Canadian.
Quote:
4. This is wrong, but these conflicts also happen bettween christians of diffrent sects in Africa, Asia and the middle east.
That's a poor attempt at deflection, but fails...The topic here is "Terrorism in Islam"

Quote:
5. Well i think you would have to blame this on your government, because bombings were not common before the war.
Yup, It's Muslims blowing each other up....Better blame the US rather than taking responsibility for your own....Do you not see how stupid that is?

Quote:
6. Well at least under the Taliban there was no suicide bombings, people lived in peace.
...Again not Muslims fault?...That is the main reason you get no respect. You will NOT take responsibility for your atrocities, but always try to shift the blame, either to the Jews or to the west...

I suppose you think the 182 dead and 362 injured last week is also the fault of the US.... News flash for you. It is a flaw in Islam that allows, and even condones this, and it is Islam's responsibility to put a stop to it....No one else can.
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Old 12-27-2009, 07:00 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,854,020 times
Reputation: 298
I think muslims should add "how to win friends and influence people" to their reading material as the q'ran does not cut it with us "westeners" Oh BTW I am South African and your stats on SA are like 20% over exaggerated iro of the xian population.

Furthermore, atheists like myself would side with xians if push came to shove. Just like we expect xians to own their woo woos and self police (which they don't) we expect the same of muslims, you folk do not self police the radical elements. While you keep females unschooled and mere vehicles for your sexual pleasure and reproduction, keep the influences of the west out of your culture (not xianity) your youth will remain in ignorance and are rich pickings for the radical imams.

Radical muslims here in SA are unheard of and in fact I find them mostly pleasant honorable people (mostly Asian) but they follow the laws of the land and are not actively trying to influence government. While there are exceptions to the rule, most islamic countries are at least 40 years behind the developed countries. While I do not like stereotyping, muslims do not have a Gandhi or Mandela figurehead they can put forward as an ambassador.

You folk are as guilty of human atrocities as xians have been, the only difference is that xians have somewhat evolved from their Spanish Inquisition days.

Can you name one xian, hindu, buddhist suicide bomber in the last decade?

We shall be waiting....
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Old 12-27-2009, 09:27 AM
 
Location: south saudi
169 posts, read 315,009 times
Reputation: 30



There is no verse in the Koran calls for violence and killing of innocents, whether they are Muslims or non-Muslim

We take the entire Koran as a way of life


The issue of extremism ..


Everything that happens around us is the reaction


What is happening in Palestine, Iraq and Afghanistan by the occupiers of non-Muslims ....what calls that ...is it killed to Innocent there are terrorism and violence ......................When I want peace for myself, should not be violated the rights of others

Is the Taliban only the extreme ?

Why associate Islam with terrorism and extremism is through your
address

There are Jewish extremists and extremists Christian There are movements, Jewish and Christian extremist working in secret...



jmoool
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