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Old 12-16-2009, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Unknown
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Killing any innocent person in Islam is forbidden, because you cant just kill any person because of their religious beliefs or their country, etc. Im gonna be straight up with everyone here, Islam commands muslims to kill people who invade their country by force and act violently towards their people, for example the Afghani Taliban in Afghanistan are fighting for their country and get a lot of support from the citizens themselves, in Afghanistan the citizens fear the foreign soldiers more than they fear the Taliban, becuase whenever a taliban fighters move into a village, they would build trust with the Afghans and then they would punish any criminal or spy, so they pretty much bring security to the villagers and this is what most Afghans want, so what the Afghani Taliban do in Afghanistan is permissiable in Islam. But the situation in Iraq is different because a lot of iraqis turned against the insurgents after a couple of years because these insurgents were killing innocent people all the time, and a lot of iraqis felt uncomfortable around them.

Basically what that means if the citizens are against the occupation then fight the occupiers, but if they support it then you should stop fighting the occupiers because you would just end up killing civilians.

Groups like Al-Qaeda, Pakistani Taliban, or any other group that commits the same acts are going against the teachings of Islam, because these groups kill muslims in muslim countries too, so its not only westerners who get killed/injured from them.
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Old 12-16-2009, 09:05 PM
 
Location: Brooklyn
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In other words, you can justify murder any time you want to.
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Old 12-17-2009, 11:32 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
Killing any innocent person in Islam is forbidden, because you cant just kill any person because of their religious beliefs or their country, etc. Im gonna be straight up with everyone here, Islam commands muslims to kill people who invade their country by force and act violently towards their people, for example the Afghani Taliban in Afghanistan are fighting for their country and get a lot of support from the citizens themselves, in Afghanistan the citizens fear the foreign soldiers more than they fear the Taliban, becuase whenever a taliban fighters move into a village, they would build trust with the Afghans and then they would punish any criminal or spy, so they pretty much bring security to the villagers and this is what most Afghans want, so what the Afghani Taliban do in Afghanistan is permissiable in Islam. But the situation in Iraq is different because a lot of iraqis turned against the insurgents after a couple of years because these insurgents were killing innocent people all the time, and a lot of iraqis felt uncomfortable around them.

Basically what that means if the citizens are against the occupation then fight the occupiers, but if they support it then you should stop fighting the occupiers because you would just end up killing civilians.

Groups like Al-Qaeda, Pakistani Taliban, or any other group that commits the same acts are going against the teachings of Islam, because these groups kill muslims in muslim countries too, so its not only westerners who get killed/injured from them.

And America has a right to defend herself....... The taliban in Afganistan gave Al quida a safe haven to commit terror. Those folks in the twin towers did nothing to Muslims. They were going about there business of the day. Men, women, children, Muslim, Christian, Jew just going about there day.

The taliban in Afganistan who closed down schools for girls, made women stay in their homes. Enforced Sharia law that was medaval, beat, shot people for transgressing. Beat women in the streets for not being covered from head to toe. Enforced a strict dress code and took away any rights for people.

The same taliban who now when schools are opening again blow them up so children can't go to school. Throw acid in the faces of girls who dare to go to school. I think if they get support it is because the people are afraid.

What the taliban do in Afganistan is not permissible in Islam. In Islam men and women are to be treated as equals. Boys and girls are to be educated. In Islam women are to be part of the society and to be active in society. The prophets wives were active in the society of the day. He worked for Kadijah who was his first wife. She ran her own business and he worked for her before he married her. Much of the Sunnah came down from his wives who lived with him and knew him best. In the early days of Islam there were women scholars who actually wrote about Islam. What the Taliban do and all other extremists is to bring Islam backwards and not allow it to come into the modern world.

If you believe the Taliban are right you are an extremist too.
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:36 PM
 
Location: Unknown
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Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
And America has a right to defend herself....... The taliban in Afganistan gave Al quida a safe haven to commit terror. Those folks in the twin towers did nothing to Muslims. They were going about there business of the day. Men, women, children, Muslim, Christian, Jew just going about there day.

The taliban in Afganistan who closed down schools for girls, made women stay in their homes. Enforced Sharia law that was medaval, beat, shot people for transgressing. Beat women in the streets for not being covered from head to toe. Enforced a strict dress code and took away any rights for people.

The same taliban who now when schools are opening again blow them up so children can't go to school. Throw acid in the faces of girls who dare to go to school. I think if they get support it is because the people are afraid.

What the taliban do in Afganistan is not permissible in Islam. In Islam men and women are to be treated as equals. Boys and girls are to be educated. In Islam women are to be part of the society and to be active in society. The prophets wives were active in the society of the day. He worked for Kadijah who was his first wife. She ran her own business and he worked for her before he married her. Much of the Sunnah came down from his wives who lived with him and knew him best. In the early days of Islam there were women scholars who actually wrote about Islam. What the Taliban do and all other extremists is to bring Islam backwards and not allow it to come into the modern world.

If you believe the Taliban are right you are an extremist too.
Well you only have general facts and half of it is either exagarrated or untrue, today girls as young as 10 years old get raped and the rapists dont get arrested for it, women in general are prone to rape, violence against women rised after the Taliban were overthrown, women and children die from nato/us airstrikes all the time and no one says a thing about it, from january-june 2009 there was 293 cases of honour killings and 446 cases of rape/gang rape. The litercy rate now is 28% and under the taliban it used to be 31%. The situation for women went from bad to worse.

Most Afghans today prefer to have the Taliban back and those afghans who want the current government to stay they're either drug lords, corrupted officials, drug dealers, drug addicts, or teenagers who want alcohol, drugs and prostitution.

I respect your view, but Afghanistan to this day does not have freedom. The NATO and U.S. forces have been there for 8 years and they're not making things any better, they're the ones who terrorize afghans by bombing them, arresting them without charges and the Afghan government does nothing about it. The total income of Afghanistan was ranked 93rd and now its ranked 116th, life expectancy was higher for both genders under the taliban,

Just keep in mind that the Pakistani Taliban and the Afghani Taliban are two different groups, the Afghani Taliban is supported by the vast majority afghans thats why they got stronger in the last 5 years and now they operate in 80% of the country, without the support of the Afghans, the Afghani Taliban would've been eliminated long time ago. The Pakistani Taliban should be eliminated because all they do is kill innocent people and they dont really know what they're fighting for.

The Afghani Taliban is a local nationalist group that will always be supported by the Pashtuns and a sizable number of other ethic groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan. They are not Al Qaeda, they have no relations with them anymore, Al Qaeda screwed the Taliban over and brought misery to the Afghans.

Afghani women today are calling for the U.S./NATO to withdraw their troops from the country because they brought nothing but misery, basically the situation went from bad to worse, especially for women.

The bravest woman of Afghanistan is against this occupation,
http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/afghan_activist_malalai_joya_says_the_occupation_h arms_womens_right
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Old 12-17-2009, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,442 times
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Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
In other words, you can justify murder any time you want to.
No, only when you have foreign forces who act hostile towards your people and treat them like animals, then you have the right to fight them if the locals of that country are agreeing with you.
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Old 12-17-2009, 05:45 PM
 
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I have read. Inhabitants of Afghanistan regret that armies of the USSR have left the country... Today "religion military high ideas" are not popular... To us here armies of the USSR have constructed schools and at home... When they have left all was ruins ... And so on.
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Old 12-17-2009, 07:09 PM
 
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ha ha. To tell that I heard from the TV?
"To leave from terrorism, All taxi drivers- should be Moslems, and and and ..."
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Old 12-17-2009, 08:46 PM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,442 times
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Originally Posted by kozmoz View Post
I have read. Inhabitants of Afghanistan regret that armies of the USSR have left the country... Today "religion military high ideas" are not popular... To us here armies of the USSR have constructed schools and at home... When they have left all was ruins ... And so on.
No man, a lot of Afghans were against the USSR, because communism can't work in muslim countries anyways.
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Old 12-18-2009, 07:00 AM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,424,680 times
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Originally Posted by mrhman92 View Post
Well you only have general facts and half of it is either exagarrated or untrue, today girls as young as 10 years old get raped and the rapists dont get arrested for it, women in general are prone to rape, violence against women rised after the Taliban were overthrown, women and children die from nato/us airstrikes all the time and no one says a thing about it, from january-june 2009 there was 293 cases of honour killings and 446 cases of rape/gang rape. The litercy rate now is 28% and under the taliban it used to be 31%. The situation for women went from bad to worse.

Most Afghans today prefer to have the Taliban back and those afghans who want the current government to stay they're either drug lords, corrupted officials, drug dealers, drug addicts, or teenagers who want alcohol, drugs and prostitution.

I respect your view, but Afghanistan to this day does not have freedom. The NATO and U.S. forces have been there for 8 years and they're not making things any better, they're the ones who terrorize afghans by bombing them, arresting them without charges and the Afghan government does nothing about it. The total income of Afghanistan was ranked 93rd and now its ranked 116th, life expectancy was higher for both genders under the taliban,

Just keep in mind that the Pakistani Taliban and the Afghani Taliban are two different groups, the Afghani Taliban is supported by the vast majority afghans thats why they got stronger in the last 5 years and now they operate in 80% of the country, without the support of the Afghans, the Afghani Taliban would've been eliminated long time ago. The Pakistani Taliban should be eliminated because all they do is kill innocent people and they dont really know what they're fighting for.

The Afghani Taliban is a local nationalist group that will always be supported by the Pashtuns and a sizable number of other ethic groups in Afghanistan and Pakistan. They are not Al Qaeda, they have no relations with them anymore, Al Qaeda screwed the Taliban over and brought misery to the Afghans.

Afghani women today are calling for the U.S./NATO to withdraw their troops from the country because they brought nothing but misery, basically the situation went from bad to worse, especially for women.

The bravest woman of Afghanistan is against this occupation,
http://womensrights.change.org/blog/view/afghan_activist_malalai_joya_says_the_occupation_h arms_womens_right

yeah, I would expect you to be on the side of the Taliban..... I have nothing more to say because you are on the side of the extremists. One day you will stand before Allah as will the other extremists. If you think the terrorisits who kill innocents are in paradise now you are sadly mistaken.

To take one innocent life is it you killed all of humanity and to save one innocent life is to have saved all of humanity.

I pray one day that Muslims will pay more attention to the peaceful parts of the quran instead of only seeing the parts that bring them to violence.
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Old 12-18-2009, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Unknown
731 posts, read 677,442 times
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Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
yeah, I would expect you to be on the side of the Taliban..... I have nothing more to say because you are on the side of the extremists. One day you will stand before Allah as will the other extremists. If you think the terrorisits who kill innocents are in paradise now you are sadly mistaken.

To take one innocent life is it you killed all of humanity and to save one innocent life is to have saved all of humanity.

I pray one day that Muslims will pay more attention to the peaceful parts of the quran instead of only seeing the parts that bring them to violence.
Jazzy its really hard to succeed in Afghanistan because the Afghan government is full of corrupted politicans and criminals, most of the politicans in Karzai's government are responsible for the rapes, murders, robbings and they were also responsible for killing up to 60,000 innocent people in Kabul alone back from 1992-96. You have Karzai's brother who makes 90% from the opium production and still gets paid a lot by the CIA, you have minors in Bagram jail who get tortured and cant have a lawyer, you also have innocent people who still get tortured in normal Afghan jails, half of these afghani police officers are drug addicts who smoke Opium and Hasish, while 15% of Afghanistan's army are drug addicts, how can the U.S. be that dumb by funding them, this would get the U.S. nowhere because you're supporting people who are not willing to fight for their country, who are responsible for bringing misery to Afghanistan and are hated by their own people.

No one likes the police officers in Afghanistan, im sorry for saying this but they're full of **** Jazzy they're the ones who rob the people in the highway, half of them are high on either opium or hasish all the time, they're just a bunch of thugs. If you compare these guys to the Taliban fighters, there is a huge diffrence bettween the two because the Taliban fighters are disciplined, respected, against drugs and people could rely on them too, because they're really fair.

Thats why the Afghani Taliban gains a lot of support around the country because their fighters are commited to their tasks, a lot of them are against drugs, thats why the ordinary citizens join them, or even police officers sometimes. The Afghani Taliban cant really get eliminated, because the fighters who fight for them are ordinary citizens like me and you, who are against the occupation, they're just there to take revenge from the horrible acts these NATO/US forces commited in their villages and they get supported by most Afghans, thats why they operate in 80% of the country.

Basically the more you kill, the more they will expand.

What im trying to say is Afghanistan is a really hard country for the foreign forces to succeed, for example Iraq, the Iraqis made the Americans job a lot easier because they were against Al-Qaeda. I know that Al-Qaeda and other insurgent groups were not weak but the U.S. overpowered them because of the Iraqis. If it wasn't for these Iraqi people, the U.S. would've struggled against these groups until today. Also the 90,000 sunni fighters who were against the U.S., they accepted the money they were offered by the U.S. to fight by their side and that is what helped the U.S. defeat Al-Qaeda.

Im not being a supporter of Taliban, but im just trying to show you that the Afghani Taliban are getting a lot of support by Afghans, if a lot of Afghans hated the Taliban like how the media make it sound then the Taliban would have been gone 5-6 years ago.

I just want to make it clear that i dont support the Taliban nor i will support the coalition forces, and sadly when i stand by the truth you call me an extremist when im not.
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