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Old 01-07-2010, 09:37 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,717,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
There is a difference in fanatical Islam and mainstream Islam.

There is a difference in fundamentalist Christianity and mainstream Christianity.

but the same belief each has is that they are right and everyone else is going to hell, both the infidel/non-believer and the unsaved/non-believer.

Both groups have historically believed the non-believer/heretic/blasphemer ought to be killed. Christianity has a long history of violence against those it saw as heretics and unbelievers, starting with the roman empire and the legalization of Christianity to the emancipation of the Jews from the ghettos imposed by Christian rulers. Christian violence lasted 100's of years. Christians killed Christian...............
I agree that Christians have done very bad things BUT what they did goes against the very grain of the Holy Bible-God's word.....it does not and would not condone those "Christian's" actions. Can the Koran say the same?

You lack discernment and your Middle Eastern history is inaccurate.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:45 PM
 
696 posts, read 783,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
So you are under the impression that God is God's name? As in Allah is their God's name?

That is absurd. Here's why:
Many gods are called "God" if you are English speaking.. and when speaking of the christian god a Muslim would say Allah...

Do you realize the pagan roots within Christianity? Even a wedding ring has its roots in paganism.

It really bugs me when people state that God cannot be called Allah.. Do Latinos have to call him God or is Dios okay?

So what is your God's name? God?

Perhaps I want to call him Fred.. Does that mean Fred is not my God and the same as yours?
I suppose it bugs you, but why? Have you researched? Have you picked up a Koran. Better yet answer this. If the foundation of a house is built on sand can the house survive the storm. Better yet the parable of the three little pigs. Which ones house wasnt blown down by the wolf? While I generalized the name of Allah, once you actually research the lies get deeper. Remember all the works of man will be tested by the fire. Those whose works last stand to gain while those who dont lose. Instead of using logic I suggest you dig deeper.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post

It will pass. Just have to give them 5 or 6 hundred years to get over those darned violent tendencies.


Ironically sir I said the same thing about 5 years ago before I actually started picking up the books and reading. Amazing I see the same person argueing the lack of understanding I had many years ago. Also your history of the crusades is bit wrong. Also it is well documented Muhammed killed many Jews around 600/700 AD. Again read.
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Old 01-07-2010, 10:55 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,907,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I agree that Christians have done very bad things BUT what they did goes against the very grain of the Holy Bible-God's word.....it does not and would not condone those "Christian's" actions. Can the Koran say the same?

You lack discernment and your Middle Eastern history is inaccurate.
I am still wishing this thread be moved from this forum, but I need to address this.

If you removed the Old Testament from the Christian "total" package, then you have a point there, but since many Christians incorporate the Old Testament into their belief system (at least when convenient) what you say is not entirely true. The Old Testament has quite a few examples that goes WITH the very grain of the 'Holy Bible.' I am not an unbeliever who will say god did this or god did that and put the blame on some deity that does not exist, but what I will say, however, is that the Old Testament contains some very vile things in the name of god where MEN claimed he authored certain evils against others.

Do you really believe god killed a man because he refused to impregnate his sister-in-law or do you think someone wanted to make sure his own people upheld a social custom of producing children for dead husbands and used a murderous god in his story to scare people? What do you think was more likely?

Do you really believe a god told Moses to go kill all the Midianites (sparing only the young virgin girls for themselves) or do you think it was more likely that Moses was a crazed lunatic who had some issue with the Midianites, wanted to take revenge and wanted to steal their property? (Read Numbers 31) What do you think was more likely?

Do you really believe a god spoke to Joshua and told him to go into Canaan and murder all of the Canaanites who were minding their own business, living in peace or Joshua led his own personal campaign to steal other people's land but needed to throw in a god to justify the actions? What do you think was more likely?

Of course, this is assuming all of these stories were true and/or not highly embellished and/or exaggerated.

Last edited by InsaneInDaMembrane; 01-07-2010 at 11:20 PM..
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:03 PM
 
696 posts, read 783,487 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I am still wishing this thread be moved from this forum, but I need to address this.

If you removed the Old Testament from the Christian "total" package, then you have a point there, but since many Christians incorporate the Old Testament into their belief system (at least when convenient) what you say is not entirely true. The Old Testament has quite a few examples that goes WITH the very grain of the 'Holy Bible.' I am not an unbeliever who will say god did this or god did that and put the blame on some deity that does not exist, but what I will say, however, is that the Old Testament contains some very vile things in the name of god where MEN claimed he authored certain evils against others.

Do you really believe god killed a man because he refused to impregnate his sister-in-law or do you think someone wanted to make sure his own people upheld a social custom of producing children for dead husbands and used a murderous god in his story to scare people? What do you think was more likely?

Do you really believe a god told Moses to go kill all the Midianites (sparing only the young virgin girls for themselves) or do you think it was more likely that Moses was a crazed lunatic who had some issue with the Midianites, wanted to take revenge and wanted to steal their property? (Read Numbers 31) What do you think was more likely?

Do you really believe a god spoke to Joshua and told him to go into Canaan and murder all of the Canaanites who were minding their own business, living in peace or Joshua led his own personal campaign to steal other people's land but needed to throw in a god to justify the actions? What do you think was more likely?

Of course, this is assuming an of these stories were true and/or not highly embellished and/or exaggerated.
Very good points however since the Old Testament is Law and the Law points to our inability to save ourselves what is wrong with it. Numerous times God points out he is just while man is not. read Ezekiel were God replies to those that say God's ways are to hard. Christ said it himself he did not come to remove the Law, but to fulfill it. Christ gave us a way to not be judged under the Law and found righteous away from it. While I wonder at all those of the Old Testament who were judged I find that I still must see that God's Law is just.

Worry not about what they did, but rest in the fact that God will judge justly.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:14 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 25,562,103 times
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Oh, why do you itch that it be moved to R & P? You want the bizarre caricatures out there supporting your flawed and metaphorically warped similes between Christianity and Islam?
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:16 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,907,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Very good points however since the Old Testament is Law and the Law points to our inability to save ourselves what is wrong with it. Numerous times God points out he is just while man is not. read Ezekiel were God replies to those that say God's ways are to hard. Christ said it himself he did not come to remove the Law, but to fulfill it. Christ gave us a way to not be judged under the Law and found righteous away from it. While I wonder at all those of the Old Testament who were judged I find that I still must see that God's Law is just.

Worry not about what they did, but rest in the fact that God will judge justly.
I'm not sure where I saw you addressed my main question ("what do you think was more likely"). Can you try again, please? Thanks.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:19 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,907,518 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antlered Chamataka View Post
Oh, why do you itch that it be moved to R & P? You want the bizarre caricatures out there supporting your flawed and metaphorically warped similes between Christianity and Islam?
Yes, and the REAL people over there too.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:28 PM
 
696 posts, read 783,487 times
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[quote=InsaneInDaMembrane;12349655]I'm not sure where I saw you addressed my main question ("what do you think was more likely"). Can you try again, please? Thanks.[/quote

I apologize as I misunderstood your point. I was making the reference to your word son the Old Testament. I also posted to your question to an earlier post, but maybe that isn't it.

I would ask if you have read the Koran or studied it even as a matter of just plain old intrest. In it it has the mention of legally raping women. It literally has the question of wether the victor should "pull out" of his reward (the enemies wives) so that there is no risk of pregnancy to the woman and she does not lose value before she is sold. It tells of an old woman captured tied too camels and pulled apart arms and legs riped from thier sockets.

Did you know in the Koran that Muhammed first was told he could pratice his religon freely so long as the pagens could practice theirs? How ironic.

However in all of that book. I have never not once found any reference to Salvation. There are things at first glance that make it that way, but not much else. There is no such thing as Radical or Moderate. Those are terms made up by man. In the Muslim world you either are or you arent. Make no mistake the so called Radicals would rule the moderates if they had their way. In Saudi Arabia it is not the love of their follow man that keeps the radicals from gaining power. Its the love of the money from the oil and the power. Ive seen it first hand. Even before I went to Christ, and it has never left my mind.
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Old 01-07-2010, 11:35 PM
 
Location: Wherever women are
19,020 posts, read 25,562,103 times
Reputation: 11309
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Yes, and the REAL people over there too.
And the people who agree with you are REAL.

Those who do not beg to differ, aka the herd. MOOOOOO!
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