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Old 01-08-2010, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,667,088 times
Reputation: 1699

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
[/b]

Ironically sir I said the same thing about 5 years ago before I actually started picking up the books and reading. Amazing I see the same person argueing the lack of understanding I had many years ago. Also your history of the crusades is bit wrong. Also it is well documented Muhammed killed many Jews around 600/700 AD. Again read.
LOL

I see that you have taken the time to develop this animosity toward Islam, that doesn't make your thought from 5 years ago any less valid or mine now for that matter.

However it is rather curious that you would state that Jews were killed by Muhammad for no cause as it is stated in the Koran that few should die for the many not many for the few. The charge to the leaders of the Jewish tribe Banu Qurayza was sedition for actively starting a revolt rather than acknowledge they were dealing with the same God.

An excerpt from a good website for you to read through:

"In the story of Qurayza a few specific persons were named as having been put to death, some of whom were described as particularly active in their hostility. It is the reasonable conclusion that those were the ones who led the sedition and who were consequently punished - not the whole tribe. " Did Prophet Muhammad order 900 Jews killed ?

Unless of course you are speaking of another incident?

The truth is that anytime someone despises another religion it is sad... a belief is not truth, truth does not change. God cannot be kept or bribed.

Bill claims he is a Christian. Bill commits an atrocity in the name of Christianity, therefore Christianity promotes atrocities.

We know that the above statement is no more true than:
Bill claims he is a Muslim. Bill commits an atrocity in the name of Islam, therefore Islam promotes atrocities.

Also, between Nazi Germany and Nationalist China over 151,491,000 were killed in the last 100 years according to the University of Hawaii Political Science department. If Hitler had renounced his Catholicism then I guess he would have been considered an atheist, however I believe he did not so... clearly there have been worse atrocities committed than that committed by Islam and/or Muhammad.. how then do you suppose to abhor Islam? Are you perhaps simply prejudice?

Last edited by katjonjj; 01-08-2010 at 11:19 AM.. Reason: Added a line or two
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:28 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,905,628 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
uh....huh.....you do realize you are talking to a Christian right? The bible is not some book but it is super natural, it has NEVER lied. Your premise is a worldly one. The question is either the bible is true or it isn't.
I was hoping I was speaking to a thinking, logical, reasoning human being FIRST then the labels second. Ma' bad.



Quote:
I didn't believe that Iraq had WMD but I did agree and support the war.
You still do?

Quote:
People are not as dumb as you think. Saddam had and used them, no reason to think they didn't not to mention we saw what a bunch of men did with a couple aeroplanes. People just couldn't take that chance with WMD. It's easy to judge now but these decisions had to be made. The heart makes it a crime or immoral NOT the aftermath.
It seems to have solved a lot of problems over there.


Quote:
Martin Luther King was human, things would have changed in this country regardless if Martin Luther King was born or not. We still have our sins and Jesus blood and sacrifice washed our sins away; when God looks at us He see Jesus and when He looks at Jesus He sees us. Jesus death benefits all; before and after.
How did a death 2,000 years ago benefit men 6,000 years before that time? If it did, no one gave them the memo apparently. They were still offering the blood of goats and bulls so that the smell could appease some deity in up the sky.
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,667,088 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
How did a death 2,000 years ago benefit men 6,000 years before that time? If it did, no one gave them the memo apparently. They were still offering the blood of goats and bulls so that the smell could appease some deity in up the sky.
Sometimes I wonder if Christianity is progressing in logical thought or sliding backward into archaism...
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:37 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
I was hoping I was speaking to a thinking, logical, reasoning human being FIRST then the labels second. Ma' bad.
I am a thinking, logical Christian. You have a worldly thinking

Quote:
You still do?
Of course I do. I don't have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I only can live for the present, pray I make the right decision based on a sincere heart

Quote:
It seems to have solved a lot of problems over there.
Iraq has done alot of wickedness to others, maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Same can be said for the U.S.

Quote:
How did a death 2,000 years ago benefit men 6,000 years before that time? If it did, no one gave them the memo apparently. They were still offering the blood of goats and bulls so that the smell could appease some deity in up the sky.
It's called revelation...Adan and Eve only had to believe in God they didn't have the commandements, Moses had to believe in God and had the commandments but he didn't have the Torah, Paul had to believe in God, the commandments the Torah and the Jesus. We today have the the whole revelation including the new testament. All Jews past and present were promised the Messiah would come. It was promised to Eve in the garden of Eden and the messiah would stop the sacrifices because Jesus would be the ultimate sacrifice.
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:50 AM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,905,628 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am a thinking, logical Christian. You have a worldly thinking
What the heck is 'worldly thinking,' Fundamentalist? And, isn't the term 'logical Christian' an oxymoron? Faith, for the most part, is illogical because it requires NO evidence.



Quote:
Of course I do. I don't have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight. I only can live for the present, pray I make the right decision based on a sincere heart.
I understand, but if you did not believe the charges against Saddam ("he has weapons of mass destruction" which you claim they did not have), why were/are you supporting this war when Iraq had NOTHING to do with an attack on us?

Quote:
Iraq has done alot of wickedness to others, maybe the chickens are coming home to roost. Same can be said for the U.S.
Then would you support terrorists from other countries invading our soil and doing 'a lot of wickedness' on us in the name of chickens coming home to roost?

Quote:
It's called revelation...Adan and Eve only had to believe in God they didn't have the commandements, Moses had to believe in God and had the commandments but he didn't have the Torah, Paul had to believe in God, the commandments the Torah and the Jesus. We today have the the whole revelation including the new testament. All Jews past and present were promised the Messiah would come. It was promised to Eve in the garden of Eden and the messiah would stop the sacrifices because Jesus would be the ultimate sacrifice.
Why not stop it from the beginning a opposed to a relatively later period in human history? What sense did that make? Did Old Testament saints wake up each day thanking god for a death that would occur thousands of years in the future that somehow "saved" them from hell?
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Old 01-08-2010, 11:59 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
What the heck is 'worldly thinking,' Fundamentalist? And, isn't the term 'logical Christian' an oxymoron? Faith, for the most part, is illogical because it requires NO evidence.
I am not takling about faith, logical as I see a creation there must be a creator. Atheist have just as much faith that something came from nothing, life came from non life and everything happened for no ryhme or reason.

Quote:
I understand, but if you did not believe the charges against Saddam ("he has weapons of mass destruction" which you claim they did not have), why were/are you supporting this war when Iraq had NOTHING to do with an attack on us?
It was already too late, the war started. I supported the war in the beginning and nothing has changed my mind. I don't live life like that. I make a decision and I stick to it.

Quote:
Then would you support terrorists from other countries invading our soil and doing 'a lot of wickedness' on us in the name of chickens coming home to roost?
Of course not...I and some of my family are here but America wouldn't have a moral foot to stand on to say the terrorists are wrong. One must protect themselves. Both sides have done evil so it's down to it's either them or us and I choose us.

Quote:
Why not stop it from the beginning a opposed to a relatively later period in human history? What sense did that make? Did Old Testament saints wake up each day thanking god for a death that would occur thousands of years in the future that somehow "saved" them from hell?
They couldn't wait for the messiah.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:03 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,905,628 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Sometimes I wonder if Christianity is progressing in logical thought or sliding backward into archaism...
Fortunately, I think a huge chunk of the Christian population are progressive minded.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:05 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Fortunately, I think a huge chunk of the Christian population are progressive minded.
I use to be a progressive but then realized progressives don't live in reality they go away to never never land of utopia. I am not an american but the way you blame the U.S. is insane and you are hypocrites......you yell NO BLOOD FOR OIL! and after you demonstrate you jump in your car go home and turn on your gas to heat your home. You benefit from the same system you criticize. That's loopy. Talking about it doesn't make you less guilty.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:09 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,905,628 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am not takling about faith, logical as I see a creation there must be a creator. Atheist have just as much faith that something came from nothing, life came from non life and everything happened for no ryhme or reason.
But your whole religion is built around "faith," isn't it? Solely believing a divine creator created all you see is not unique to Christianity by any stretch nor is all that makes one a Christian. What makes you a Christian requires faith and you thereby walk by that faith from there on.


Quote:
It was already too late, the war started. I supported the war in the beginning and nothing has changed my mind. I don't live life like that. I make a decision and I stick to it.
Even if you are proven wrong in your thinking? You don't have a flexible mind?


Quote:
Of course not...I and some of my family are here but America wouldn't have a moral foot to stand on to say the terrorists are wrong. One must protect themselves. Both sides have done evil so it's down to it's either them or us and I choose us.
Hmmm....I see.


Quote:
They couldn't wait for the messiah.
Of course not. They all died.
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:12 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,714,218 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Of course not. They all died.
and are now in heaven
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