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Old 01-08-2010, 12:20 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,908,015 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
and are now in heaven
You know this? You've seen them there? Have they contacted you from there? Whose word are you taking on this?
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Old 01-08-2010, 12:28 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,717,680 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by InsaneInDaMembrane View Post
Fortunately, I think a huge chunk of the Christian population are progressive minded.
I use to be a progressive but then realized progressives don't live in reality they go away to never never land of utopia. I am not an american but the way you blame the U.S. is insane and you are hypocrites......you yell NO BLOOD FOR OIL! and after you demonstrate you jump in your car go home and turn on your gas to heat your home. You benefit from the same system you criticize. That's loopy. Talking about it doesn't make you less guilty.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:26 PM
 
696 posts, read 783,544 times
Reputation: 66
Biblical Data: Eldest son of Abraham by his concubine Hagar; born when Abraham was eighty-six years of age (Gen. xvi. 15, 16). God promised Abraham that His blessing should be upon Ishmael, who, He foretold, would beget twelve princes and would become a great nation (Gen. xvii. 18, 20). Ishmael was circumcised at the age of thirteen (Gen. xvii. 23-26). When Sarah saw Ishmael mocking her son Isaac, his brother, younger by fourteen years, she insisted that Abraham cast out Ishmael and his slave-mother. Abraham reluctantly yielded, having provided them with bread and a bottle of water. Ishmael was about to die of thirst when an angel showed his mother a well, repeating to her at the same time that Ishmael would become a great nation. Ishmael dwelt in the wilderness, apparently, of Beer-sheba, where he became a skillful archer; later he settled in the wilderness of Paran, where his mother took him a wife from Egypt (Gen. xxi. 8-21). Both Ishmael and Isaac were present at the burial of their father, Abraham. Ishmael died at the age of 137. He had twelve sons, ancestors of twelve tribes that dwelt "from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goes to Assyria" (Gen. xxv. 9-18).

Im sorry this is incorrect. This has been disproven so many times Ive lost count. You fail as the author to incorporate the idea of Biblical marriage. Abraham was never married to Hagar, but was given her by his true wife Sarah. While what Abraham did was acceptable in the eyes of the land, it was clearly not seen as acceptable by the Bible. God bestowed his promise upon the true first born which is Isaac. If Ishmael was the true first born would not have God commanded his sacrifice instead of Isaac? This is a common mistake amongst many. This is why Ishmael is a wild ass of a man and he is against all man and his brothers to the West. I would suggest you restudy as Ishmael and the yes 12 nations that came from him were promised nationhood nothing more.
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Old 01-08-2010, 02:30 PM
 
696 posts, read 783,544 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Sometimes I wonder if Christianity is progressing in logical thought or sliding backward into archaism...
Define logical thought and then find logical thought in the world. I know you can do one, but not the other. You decide which. And to slide backward implys we were born great first and foremost and then fall down to archaism. As Christians are born into depreavity and archaism, but move out of it or forward in your thinking, your application of logic can not be applied.
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Old 01-08-2010, 06:53 PM
 
Location: New York City
5,556 posts, read 6,908,015 times
Reputation: 1354
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am a thinking, logical Christian. You have a worldly thinking


I really had to revisit this. What really is 'worldly thinking?' Don't you use 'worldly thinking' like the rest of us for just about EVERYTHING you do?
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:08 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 8,671,040 times
Reputation: 1699
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Define logical thought and then find logical thought in the world. I know you can do one, but not the other. You decide which. And to slide backward implys we were born great first and foremost and then fall down to archaism. As Christians are born into depreavity and archaism, but move out of it or forward in your thinking, your application of logic can not be applied.
My comment was about the archaic thought that everything bad that happens to you is a demon or evil spirit... I thought we'd moved past that with science and all..

Just a simple comment not really debate worthy.
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Old 01-08-2010, 10:31 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 12,717,680 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
My comment was about the archaic thought that everything bad that happens to you is a demon or evil spirit... I thought we'd moved past that with science and all..

Just a simple comment not really debate worthy.
We can be responsible or God can cause it to happen or allow it.
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Old 01-09-2010, 01:34 AM
 
696 posts, read 783,544 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
My comment was about the archaic thought that everything bad that happens to you is a demon or evil spirit... I thought we'd moved past that with science and all..

Just a simple comment not really debate worthy.
Is if anything of God's word was a simply comment. I stand by what I said.
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Old 01-10-2010, 01:11 PM
 
4,083 posts, read 4,425,900 times
Reputation: 807
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aschultz73 View Post
Biblical Data: Eldest son of Abraham by his concubine Hagar; born when Abraham was eighty-six years of age (Gen. xvi. 15, 16). God promised Abraham that His blessing should be upon Ishmael, who, He foretold, would beget twelve princes and would become a great nation (Gen. xvii. 18, 20). Ishmael was circumcised at the age of thirteen (Gen. xvii. 23-26). When Sarah saw Ishmael mocking her son Isaac, his brother, younger by fourteen years, she insisted that Abraham cast out Ishmael and his slave-mother. Abraham reluctantly yielded, having provided them with bread and a bottle of water. Ishmael was about to die of thirst when an angel showed his mother a well, repeating to her at the same time that Ishmael would become a great nation. Ishmael dwelt in the wilderness, apparently, of Beer-sheba, where he became a skillful archer; later he settled in the wilderness of Paran, where his mother took him a wife from Egypt (Gen. xxi. 8-21). Both Ishmael and Isaac were present at the burial of their father, Abraham. Ishmael died at the age of 137. He had twelve sons, ancestors of twelve tribes that dwelt "from Havilah unto Shur, that is before Egypt, as thou goes to Assyria" (Gen. xxv. 9-18).

Im sorry this is incorrect. This has been disproven so many times Ive lost count. You fail as the author to incorporate the idea of Biblical marriage. Abraham was never married to Hagar, but was given her by his true wife Sarah. While what Abraham did was acceptable in the eyes of the land, it was clearly not seen as acceptable by the Bible. God bestowed his promise upon the true first born which is Isaac. If Ishmael was the true first born would not have God commanded his sacrifice instead of Isaac? This is a common mistake amongst many. This is why Ishmael is a wild ass of a man and he is against all man and his brothers to the West. I would suggest you restudy as Ishmael and the yes 12 nations that came from him were promised nationhood nothing more.

Just telling you whats in the bible you can discount it if you want.....
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Old 01-10-2010, 10:45 PM
 
696 posts, read 783,544 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jazzymom View Post
Just telling you whats in the bible you can discount it if you want.....
LOL find 10 Christians scholars who support what you say and you can win the pink teddy. I would suggest you reread my posts and look again. I dont discount by any means, I am emphatically deny your assertion. It is without merit.

I humbly suggest you rethink your speech. Ishmael never was the promised one nor was he the line to the Tribe of Judah. Truely approach scripture with trembling. What you say is not something to be taken lightly.
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