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Old 05-11-2010, 03:09 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,039,634 times
Reputation: 161

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
But what you should do in response to naked directed aggression, elwill, is create your own army and pick your battleground. That should not be the World Trade Center, or The London tube, but it was, because the Muslim mullahs, such as that blind fellow who planned the earlier unsuccessful world Trade Center bombings, see all Americans and Westerners, and even Muslims in the building or subway, as targets for his own personal vile hatred and teachings.

A man of God and peace... hah!

Eventually, if Muslims take this too far, and let's say they light off an isotopic dirty bomb in ,say, LA or NYC or Phoenix or Chicago or Berlin or Amsterdam or Toronto, we'll have no choice but to respond in kind rather than let it just go unanswered, unchallenged and unstopped. What would you expect us to do when the mass indiscriminant murder of innocents becomes the standard rule for engagement?

If the West (a strategic alliance of the US, Canada, Western Europe, Japan, etc.) is forced to go that route, fanatic, radical Islam will likely rue the day. There will be nothing left, frankly. We'll end it once and for all if Islam chooses to start it (which ,to some degree, they already have, and we've shown remarkable restraint....).
if you are agianst the terrosrim acts , then i'm with you
me either against these acts which you mentioned

i was just put the you-tube vedios in it's context

thanx
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Old 05-12-2010, 01:03 PM
 
Location: Earth, Milky Way
290 posts, read 342,863 times
Reputation: 128
Question...
Let's say Bob searches and searches, studies and researches Islam and God. In the end, Bob's reason concludes that God does not exist. When he dies, and (let's assume) finds himself in front of God, would he be blamed for not believing? Is it his fault that he doesn't believe? If yes, why?
Thanks!
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:54 PM
 
75 posts, read 97,579 times
Reputation: 45
It's really sad how cause of some retarded unintelligent Muslims out there, the whole religion is being looked down on. I know a lot of Muslims at my school that are really nice, and they do have their fair share of ******* but what other religion doesn't. But that's just modern children. That's the worse part, the modern Muslims these days don't give a sh*t about their religion no more, and aren't they the future for Muslims? If they're acting like this at this age...I wonder what's gonna happen in the future, not so bright. So obviously their chances of standing up in the future are way less compared to now if the intelligent people out there are willing to try to do something...This is just like the time when the Roman Catholics were trying to take over and force everyone to join in their religion. If I pay attention during history class I'm pretty sure they didn't have terrorists back then, but that was thousands of years ago. During this century we're just so advanced that we gotta have terrorists. That's not the way to go but hey this can't last forever, someday we'll get through this phase. Not like we can really do anything about it besides complain on threads over the internet like these.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:36 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,770 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpidrAkirE View Post
Question...
Let's say Bob searches and searches, studies and researches Islam and God. In the end, Bob's reason concludes that God does not exist. When he dies, and (let's assume) finds himself in front of God, would he be blamed for not believing? Is it his fault that he doesn't believe? If yes, why?
Thanks!
anyone that gets the message, and it is explained to them (meaning you actually research it and ask questions, etc.), and refuses it will go to hell.

theres nothing different about christianity or judaism.

people who didnt follow moses (pbuh) when he came with the word of god went to hell.

people who didnt follow christ (pbuh) when he delivered his message from god went to hell.

people who dont follow muhammad (pbuh) are going to go to hell.

hell wasnt created for nothing.
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Old 05-12-2010, 05:48 PM
 
Location: Earth, Milky Way
290 posts, read 342,863 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
anyone that gets the message, and it is explained to them (meaning you actually research it and ask questions, etc.), and refuses it will go to hell.

theres nothing different about christianity or judaism.

people who didnt follow moses (pbuh) when he came with the word of god went to hell.

people who didnt follow christ (pbuh) when he delivered his message from god went to hell.

people who dont follow muhammad (pbuh) are going to go to hell.

hell wasnt created for nothing.
I know what you're saying. I just don't understand it. How can someone be blamed for not believing? It's like love. Ever tried to force yourself into love? Fondness or liking is one thing, love is another. I don't understand how you can force your reason into agreeing or disagreeing with something. It's like that children's toy where you have to put the right shapes through the right holes - squeezing a square block through a triangle hole just isn't going to work...
I'd really like to understand so if anyone could help...
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:33 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,770 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpidrAkirE View Post
I know what you're saying. I just don't understand it. How can someone be blamed for not believing? It's like love. Ever tried to force yourself into love? Fondness or liking is one thing, love is another. I don't understand how you can force your reason into agreeing or disagreeing with something. It's like that children's toy where you have to put the right shapes through the right holes - squeezing a square block through a triangle hole just isn't going to work...
I'd really like to understand so if anyone could help...
its not being forced upon you. god is not a god of confusion. when god created adam he caused all of adams descendants, ie all of mankind, to take an oath and he asked all the souls of mankind "am i not your lord" to which all the souls of mankind replied yes. we all know there is a higher being unless your athiest but thats a whole other story in itself. love is a feeling. believing in allah is not a feeling, its something your born with. i guess you can call it a feeling but its more of something you know is right. allah says that anyone who reads the quran and truly wants to follow the true word of god, closer to god, desires to obey god, truly wanting to find god, then the quran will have something in it that will draw you toward islam.

as far as your question as to how can you force yourself to believe something that your unsure is right, you simply prove it. ask questions, do research. insha allah the person to whom your askjng the questions tells you the correct answers because alotof brothers and sisters out there do things a little differently. but any question about whats written in the quran can be further explained in the hadiths. its hard not to understand anything thats written i the quran because you can prove everything in it. but you cant just read the quran, you cant just read the hadiths, they go together. for example it tells yohto pray in the quran but muslims pray different ways sometimes, even when u try and show them proof, this is how you prostrate correctly, at times they still wont listen, even when the proof is right in front of them.

i believe you made a statement saying how can you be blamed for not believing, if your still talking about someone who has gotten the message of islam, meaning you didnt just hear about it but it was explained to you or you researched it, then thats different than someone who never got the message at all. if you had an island and a group of people were on it but they had no clue about islam, they would still know right from wrong. allah says that no one who never recieved a messenger will be punished. theyll b tested on the day of judgement and then judged on their actions because everyone knows right and wrong even with no religion. an atheist can tell you if something is good or bad. is it good to steal. no. never is. its a feeling that we are born with therefore on the day of judgement when you are in front of allah you will be judged for what you have done. not what anyone else has done, not what your brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers have done, your only accountable for what you do.

id like to think that i answered your questions but please let me know if i failed to answer what u were inquiring about. ill help you as much as i can
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:20 PM
 
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,375,913 times
Reputation: 3735
I was, until I was about 17 or so, a Christian. Attended church, even attended Sunday School until I was about 11 or 12, when I started to get kind of fidgety with the silly comic books. You know the ones, with Noah and his silly 2 by 2 Ark, or Moses parting water or a massive 30 foor high giant being slain by a tiny David.

Frankly, there was also some pretty biased stuff in there about Islam as well, hidden away in comic book stories about the Crusaders going after the barbaric hoards of plunderers, rapists and looters in some foreign country with decidedly Middle Eastern characteristics.

Anyhow, I did do that research you speak of, sukril, and was sorely disappointed in the flakey answers that the church and my own reading provided. The more I asked, the more disappointing the answers.

Then, an amazing thing happened: I started in on my formal university education. First in engineering, then in biology, and then in geology. The more I learned there, the more those early dissonant Christian answers failed. Outright and completely. As well, these seemingly variant disciplines all came together in many ways in my professional career as a consultant, out in the real, natural world.

A total of about, oh, 15 years of under- and grad- education also taught me the basics of critical thinking, of ignoring emotionalism, intellectual inertia and mass acceptance. One's ego or personal needs must be managed and kept in abeyance (i.e.: under control) if one is rationally seeking a higher truth.

"Islam calls for" ??? Mohammed is a relative latecomer, and only a prophet. We all know their general success rate in prediction, and as well, his influence has been mostly one of the incitement of aggressive, chauvinistic behavior, and within the more radical fringe-element, he has fomented downright vicious behavior. Death fatwahs against Danish cartoon artists and Salman Rushdie? Statements that "The West must Die"? Endless bombings world-wide, gloatingly claimed by Islamic fundamentalists?

To deny these events and outcomes is specious. So then, where is the world-wide outrage and uprisings by your claimed peaceful Muslims against such unacceptable criminal behavior? Instead we're treated to pictures of American flags burning in the streets, and of violent demonstration marches, and yet again more suicide bombings that kill or maim hundred of innocents, often children.

"Islam calls for" ????

Please explain.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:13 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,770 times
Reputation: 54
terrorism is not islam rifleman. i dont know why you keep throwing that in with islam. it was never written to terrorize or kill the innocent or anything like that. islam IS a peaceful religion. it doesnt say to burn flags in the quran either. these are just things people do. dont get it twisted and try and THROW that into islam or blame ALL muslims for what some extremist overseas do. your being unfar and judgemental. millions of muslims around the world have never killed anyone and WOULD never kill anyone. but you keep WANTING to believe and spreading LIES that all muslims are terrorist. thats an extremely decieving message. muslims wouldnt hurt a fly, but as far as people go who are maybe confused in their own religion or their own mind. i cant help that. all i can say is thate BEING a muslim, me READING the quran, me ATTENDING the friday prayer and me FOLLOWING ISLAM (as best i can [meaning no im not perfect]), basically me doing what muslims are supposed to do. the thought of terrorism is not ok with me anymore than an not ok with anyone who lost a loved on in the wtc plane crashes. it does not make me happy that all those people were killed and it does not make me happy when another person dies because of terrorism or any act of terrorism. you really need to stop saying that all muslims are terrorist or even ones that you dont even know. like me for example. put yourself in my shoes, i hear my brothers of islam telling me how on 911 his wife cant go to the store without being harrassesed or on any other day for that matter. think about how muslims worked in the 911 building and thier families not only LOST thier loved ones but theyre hearing getting harrassed being called terrorist. you really need to wise up because you may have some phd or took a few classes i. school but you dont need any of that to put two and two together like i just did.

stop harrassing muslims. your not after us. your after the terrorist. we all are. it sucks when people dont know you but they think they know something about yoh just by the way you look or the way you dress. and for what, just because you believe in something different than other people do? you really need to take a step back and think twice before you say something next time because it does alot more than yoh think. people who didnt know about anything before after reading what you wrote on this forum will think that its true, that all mualima juat because theyre muslims are terrorist, or bad people.. just think about that before you post a reply. im not tryin to offend anyone. im just trying to explain that terrorism is not part of islam.
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:06 PM
 
Location: Earth, Milky Way
290 posts, read 342,863 times
Reputation: 128
Firstly, thank you for your explanation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
its not being forced upon you. god is not a god of confusion. when god created adam he caused all of adams descendants, ie all of mankind, to take an oath and he asked all the souls of mankind "am i not your lord" to which all the souls of mankind replied yes. we all know there is a higher being unless your athiest but thats a whole other story in itself. love is a feeling. believing in allah is not a feeling, its something your born with. i guess you can call it a feeling but its more of something you know is right. allah says that anyone who reads the quran and truly wants to follow the true word of god, closer to god, desires to obey god, truly wanting to find god, then the quran will have something in it that will draw you toward islam.
Maybe.
You say God caused all of Adam's descendents, mankind, to take an oath, asking them "am I not your lord?" Why would God do this? I've always wondered, what was God trying to establish by making humanity aware that they were created by God?

Quote:
as far as your question as to how can you force yourself to believe something that your unsure is right, you simply prove it. ask questions, do research. insha allah the person to whom your askjng the questions tells you the correct answers because alotof brothers and sisters out there do things a little differently. but any question about whats written in the quran can be further explained in the hadiths. its hard not to understand anything thats written i the quran because you can prove everything in it. but you cant just read the quran, you cant just read the hadiths, they go together. for example it tells yohto pray in the quran but muslims pray different ways sometimes, even when u try and show them proof, this is how you prostrate correctly, at times they still wont listen, even when the proof is right in front of them.
You say proof helps us believe. So far so good...this seems to make sense. How is this done? For insance, as a very typical example, Abrahamic scriptures explain that God created Adam and Eve. Darwin suggested the idea that species evolved, meaning the story of Adam and Eve is left redundant. So how do we know which proof is the real proof...a book that we believe is the word of God and may not be, or the science which may be incorrect?

Quote:
i believe you made a statement saying how can you be blamed for not believing, if your still talking about someone who has gotten the message of islam, meaning you didnt just hear about it but it was explained to you or you researched it, then thats different than someone who never got the message at all. if you had an island and a group of people were on it but they had no clue about islam, they would still know right from wrong. allah says that no one who never recieved a messenger will be punished. theyll b tested on the day of judgement and then judged on their actions because everyone knows right and wrong even with no religion. an atheist can tell you if something is good or bad. is it good to steal. no. never is. its a feeling that we are born with therefore on the day of judgement when you are in front of allah you will be judged for what you have done. not what anyone else has done, not what your brothers and sisters, mothers and fathers have done, your only accountable for what you do.
Again this leads me to question why God would punish someone who had researched and had come to the conclusion that it isn't true/doesn't work/exist...etc. If God knows people better than they know themselves, then God knows why they don't believe. If God knows people better than they know themselves, wouldn't he choose to show his existance in a way that they understand rather than criticizing them when they don't?

Again, thank you for your explanations
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Old 05-13-2010, 12:15 PM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 17,022,671 times
Reputation: 2109
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
terrorism is not islam rifleman. i dont know why you keep throwing that in with islam. it was never written to terrorize or kill the innocent or anything like that. islam IS a peaceful religion. it doesnt say to burn flags in the quran either. these are just things people do. dont get it twisted and try and THROW that into islam or blame ALL muslims for what some extremist overseas do. your being unfar and judgemental. millions of muslims around the world have never killed anyone and WOULD never kill anyone. but you keep WANTING to believe and spreading LIES that all muslims are terrorist. thats an extremely decieving message. muslims wouldnt hurt a fly, but as far as people go who are maybe confused in their own religion or their own mind. i cant help that. all i can say is thate BEING a muslim, me READING the quran, me ATTENDING the friday prayer and me FOLLOWING ISLAM (as best i can [meaning no im not perfect]), basically me doing what muslims are supposed to do. the thought of terrorism is not ok with me anymore than an not ok with anyone who lost a loved on in the wtc plane crashes. it does not make me happy that all those people were killed and it does not make me happy when another person dies because of terrorism or any act of terrorism. you really need to stop saying that all muslims are terrorist or even ones that you dont even know. like me for example. put yourself in my shoes, i hear my brothers of islam telling me how on 911 his wife cant go to the store without being harrassesed or on any other day for that matter. think about how muslims worked in the 911 building and thier families not only LOST thier loved ones but theyre hearing getting harrassed being called terrorist. you really need to wise up because you may have some phd or took a few classes i. school but you dont need any of that to put two and two together like i just did.

stop harrassing muslims. your not after us. your after the terrorist. we all are. it sucks when people dont know you but they think they know something about yoh just by the way you look or the way you dress. and for what, just because you believe in something different than other people do? you really need to take a step back and think twice before you say something next time because it does alot more than yoh think. people who didnt know about anything before after reading what you wrote on this forum will think that its true, that all mualima juat because theyre muslims are terrorist, or bad people.. just think about that before you post a reply. im not tryin to offend anyone. im just trying to explain that terrorism is not part of islam.
So what makes the terrorist believe that jihad ( i think that is what they call it) or killing in the name of Allah is ok? I dont understand it. If Islam doesn't teach that, where do they get that idea?
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