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View Poll Results: Is Islam a religion of Peace?
Always 4 11.76%
Never 15 44.12%
Sometimes 10 29.41%
Most of the time 5 14.71%
Voters: 34. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 06-01-2007, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
1,078 posts, read 3,498,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nvxplorer View Post
The question can be answered in many ways.

If we look to the Koran for an answer, whose interpretation do we use? Mine or yours? That of a mullah? That of a Muslim neighbor? A disinterested third party?

If we look to actions, whose actions do we examine? The average American Muslim? A member of the Taliban? A Palestinian refugee?

I think we could find any answer we desired, from lamblike to bloodthirsty.
Ummm seems clear, no interpretation necessary. Tell me how can this be interpreted in a peaceful manner?
Sura 4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
9:5 Then, when the sacred months have passed, slay the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
9:29 Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. Fight against Christians and Jews "until they pay the tribute (the Dhimmi) readily, being brought low."

MBG
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:51 PM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 10,999,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightbirdgirl View Post
Fight against Christians and Jews "until they pay the tribute (the Dhimmi) readily, being brought low."[/b]
MBG
I don't claim any knowledge of Muslim scripture but doesn't this look like something that may have been added after whatever the original may have been...it just seems to specific to me. Again I have no idea, but it stuck out as too specific.
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Old 06-01-2007, 03:52 PM
 
25 posts, read 122,005 times
Reputation: 34
Default I just want my posts to be open

Quote:
Originally Posted by arguy1973 View Post
so whos not calm here??
I'm just reminding the members to adhere to the rules of this website so my threads don't close.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Alexandria, VA
1,078 posts, read 3,498,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
I don't claim any knowledge of Muslim scripture but doesn't this look like something that may have been added after whatever the original may have been...it just seems to specific to me. Again I have no idea, but it stuck out as too specific.
It is in there Qur'an...
Sorry way it is.
That is from a Muslim site...here it is from another Islamic site:

[9.29] Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Apostle have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.

[9.30] And the Jews say: Uzair is the son of Allah; and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son of Allah; these are the words of their mouths; they imitate the saying of those who disbelieved before; may Allah destroy them; how they are turned away!

9.31] They have taken their doctors of law and their monks for lords besides Allah, and (also) the Messiah son of Marium and they were enjoined that they should serve one God only, there is no god but He; far from His glory be what they set up (with Him).

[9.32] They desire to put out the light of Allah with their mouths, and Allah will not consent save to perfect His light, though the unbelievers are averse.
[9.33] He it is Who sent His Apostle with guidance and the religion of truth, that He might cause it to prevail over all religions, though the polytheists may be averse.

[9.34] O you who believe! most surely many of the doctors of law and the monks eat away the property of men falsely, and turn (them) from Allah's way; and (as for) those who hoard up gold and silver and do not spend it in Allah's way, announce to them a painful chastisement,

[9.35] On the day when it shall be heated in the fire of hell, then their foreheads and their sides and their backs shall be branded with it; this is what you hoarded up for yourselves, therefore taste what you hoarded.

You can search the Qur'an yourself...if you don't believe it.
The Koran

MBG
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:10 PM
 
508 posts, read 1,548,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom View Post
I don't claim any knowledge of Muslim scripture but doesn't this look like something that may have been added after whatever the original may have been...it just seems to specific to me. Again I have no idea, but it stuck out as too specific.
Actually given the fact that Muhammad wasnt even born until 570 years after Christ died, it would fit. I honestly cannot say whether it is in the Koran or not though.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:30 PM
 
Location: Valley of the Sun, Arizona
253 posts, read 596,295 times
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Well, I haven't read very much Muslim scripture, but looking into history and the beliefs I know of, they seem like a rather peaceful group in theory. They got pretty angry with Greek Christians one time though, because of the way they had simply tossed loads of garbage onto a rock that the Muslims deemed as Holy and believed to be the sacred rock from which Mohammed ascended to heaven. It offended them so much that they massacred the city, they then built the Dome of the Rock. But for the most part, they would conquer lands but they would grant freedom of religion to all, and they showed special brotherhood with the Christians and the Jews calling them "People of the Book" because of the similar religious teachings. Muslims also do not believe in forcing their religion on anybody.

What I am trying to say is that the teachings of Islam seem to be quite peaceful, it is the people sometimes (and definitely not all of them) who make people question that. For instance, when the Twin Towers were bombed in 2001, people in the USA seemed to develope a deep prejudice against Islam, even though it is a minority of Muslims who are the extremists. And it is disturbing that many people still hold these prejudices, and people who profess to be open minded as well.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:54 PM
 
Location: Between Here and There
3,684 posts, read 10,999,920 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by midnightbirdgirl View Post
It is in there Qur'an...
Sorry way it is.
You can search the Qur'an yourself...if you don't believe it.
The Koran

MBG
Like I said I have no idea, just looked too specific...but wow live and learn.
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Old 06-01-2007, 04:59 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
6,715 posts, read 12,276,993 times
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This in itself is the very problem with religion. Everyone wants to blame another religion for the problems with the world. They want to blame Islams, Jews, Protestants, etc.... This is exactly why I do not like organized religion. The people who preach against passing judgement always seem to be the first ones to talk about how messed up another religion is. The banter goes back and forth and back and forth until all out hell breaks loose. If people would just accept the fact that others have different religions and leave it at that the world would be a different place. Talking about how violent another religion is and trying to prove how bad it is is exactly the reason we have situations like we do right now. Stop trying to blame all the other world's religions for all the problems. Look in the mirror and see the problem for yourself.
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Old 06-01-2007, 05:14 PM
 
256 posts, read 391,851 times
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Years ago, when I first encountered some very radical Muslims at graduate school, I decided to study up on the Koran and Muslim beliefs. I also sat down with both American and "Middle Eastern" Muslims (from several different countries including Egypt, Iran, Kuwait and Saudi). I wanted to check out my understandings.

First, just as the Jews have the Talmud to expand on and explain the Torah, Muslims have the Hadith (or Haddith) and the Sunnah which expand on and explains the Koran. . The Sunnah is the second source of Islamic jurisprudence, the first being the Qur'an. Both sources are indispensable; one cannot practice Islam without consulting both of them. The Arabic word hadith (pl. ahadith) is very similar to Sunnah, but not identical. A hadith is a narration about the life of the Prophet (saas) or what he approved - as opposed to his life itself, which is the Sunnah as already mentioned. Some interpretations over the centuries were peaceful, most were not.

Comparing the terrorist actions of today's Muslims with the actions of the Crusaders is specious and is not a usable parallel. European culture in the 13th and 14th centuries was not comparable to the 20th and 21st centuries cultures of Muslim countries.

So what was the bottom line of my studies and discussions? Islam teaches conversion by the sword. Those who will not convert may be killed. It happens much more frequently in the Middle East than here, but even in the US, most of the mullahs support terrorism.

It is difficult to interpret the Koran and the Haddith as other than encouraging the killing of non-Muslims. I encourage you to not take my word for it, however. Check out the texts themselves at the Univ of California Santa Barbara Libraries Resources for Middle East and Islamic Studies:
UCSB Libraries - Internet Resources for Middle East and Islamic Studies (http://www.library.ucsb.edu/subjects/mideast/neareast.html - broken link)

There are many Muslim fora on the 'net which welcome non-Muslims for discussions. Please be aware, however, that much of what you hear there will be shufflings and spin. The ones where you are not welcome are the ones on which you will learn more, but you wouldn't last long on them - you'd be 'found out' and banned.

So all this is to say that months and months of study and months and months of discussions and associating with "westernized" Muslims have led me to the conclusion that Islam is NOT a religion of peace.

Islamic cultures cannot peacefully co-exist with western democratic / republic philosophy and practices. Not just because their "culture" prefers dictators and fear, but because their culture is based on central theocracy, no matter what kind of government they have.

Are you willing for US municipalities to be governed by Shari`ah and Fiqh principles? Polygamous marriages, women executed if they are raped by strangers, women required to wear jibab, hibab, and burka, girls forbidden education, hands and/or feet cut off for theft? How about female genital mutilation in order to perpetuate the "purity" of females? While not all this is "required" under Shari`ah and Fiqh, these are customs in many Muslim countries. There are Muslims who really believe if these were instituted here that American culture would become "purer."

How about training your 5 year old boys to be soldiers - for real? Teach them to become human bombs? This is going on in Palestinian kindergartens now.

All of these things are the **logical sequela** when one starts with the Koran and the Hadith and Sunnah.

No, I don't see Islam as a religion of peace. I see it as a culture of the repression of freedom and individualism - things the USA **is** based on.

I'm not going to debate my opinion. It's just my opinion. But it isn't open to change at this point.

turtlemom

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Old 06-01-2007, 05:52 PM
 
2,967 posts, read 1,762,860 times
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Wow, that was an informative and enlightening post. Thanks for sharing your experience and knowledge.
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