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Old 02-23-2011, 11:57 AM
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,369,507 times
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Originally Posted by TaoistDude View Post
The Golden Ratio is also derivable from Fibonacci series. The ratio appears in nature quite commonly because it represents the most efficient packing arrangement, such as for seeds. It is a natural outcome of the growth process, and while it is fascinating, it is totally natural and readily observable in nature. Not by design, but simply as a result of the nature of the physical universe.

Here's a nice set of explanations, graphics, animations, and examples:

The Fibonacci Numbers and Golden section in Nature - 1
Oh Taoist you foolish fellow you () ! Fibonacci, Schmibonachi! You're doubting the Q'ran here?

As I'm sure you do know, the whole idea of naturally evolving ratios and formations, glorious galaxies and pulsars just "are", simply because things get tried out and the ones that do work out, well, they work out! The bad ideas don't, and so they tend to fade away, while the good ideas accumulate. (It's also the same reason Evolution so well, BTW...) Amazing, no?

But then some guy or group comes along and proclaims that it is all the result of god, allah, mohammed's unique perspectives on the world, or what have you. "Gloriousness" is no proof of God.

It'd all be quite humorous if it wasn't so dag-nabbed arrogant, short-sighted or introspective. Try to grasp the BIGGER picture, OK fellas?

Old 02-23-2011, 12:04 PM
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,369,507 times
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Default I have to add this one thought, in all seriousness...

This thread (and a few others here along the same vein, about knocking sounds and glorious stars...) strongly suggest that many devout Muslims do not generally think for themselves, that it's always the ideas of others, as represented either by Q'ranic quotes, or from quote-mined or mis-quoted information stolen from Western science or Christian religious sites. There never seems to be any questioning of those ideas, just blind acceptance. I know; this is an over-simplification, but nonetheless...

Tell me this isn't so. Present a few point-form arguments for your beliefs, based on logic and credibility. Do not just provide yet another ambiguous quote from "The Glorious Q'ran!". Please. I'm waiting, honestly!
Old 02-25-2011, 05:25 AM
439 posts, read 482,147 times
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Originally Posted by rifleman View Post
.... Present a few point-form arguments for your beliefs, based on logic and credibility.....
i will present three logic cases soon in sha Allah.
Old 02-25-2011, 06:31 AM
Location: Somewhere out there
9,616 posts, read 11,369,507 times
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No problem, but please; don't just quote your glorious Q'ran as proof in itself of anything. Like this thread, which was totally inadequate as proof of anything, and this one was your idea, after all.

I need to see a logical evolution of your argument, with salient points and the ability of you to quicly respond and defend your position. You know, like in a real debate?

(Oh, and by the way, why do you have to go off and find or learn a proof? I have mine all in my head, already well developed and reviewed, since I've already thought them out, found any issues or problems, and resolved them or subsequently altered my beliefs. I don't just
cut and paste any of my arguments, nor stubbornly stick to bad ideas. I hope you don't either...)
Old 02-25-2011, 07:48 AM
10,452 posts, read 10,626,025 times
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I just thought I should let people know that the Roman transliteration of the word قرآن is Qur'an and the anglicized version of the word is Koran.

That said, the Fibonacci numbers are beautiful and evident in nature, regardless of your belief or lack of belief in Allah.
Old 10-31-2012, 09:25 PM
1 posts, read 1,083 times
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The 4th oldest Qur'an has already been discovered, and studies showed that it has the EXACT same text as the Qur'ans today.

The 4th oldest is also one of the 5 Qur'ans that were compiled within the same time, so the 4th oldest is the exact same text as the first Qur'an.

So basically, the Qur'ans you are reading today, are 100% exact replicas of the oldest Qur'ans, now, explain.

How can an illiterate and unlettered man like Muhammad (saw) be able to FIGURE SOMETHING LIKE THIS OUT?

And this isn't the only thing, the Qur'an is FILLED with scientific miracles and discoveries that were found TODAY.

Islam is indeed a religion by GOD.
Old 11-01-2012, 06:28 AM
Location: Somewhere out there
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Default Wool over eyes!

Originally Posted by 301ouncer View Post
please help me understand this:

How did an unlettered prophet in arabia 1400 years ago include the golden ratio of 1.618 in the Quranic verse of Makka?

How did adam pbuh know at which point on earth to lay the foundations of the kabba?

How did abraham pbuh know centuries after Adam to go back and finish off the building of Kabba with his son Ismeal pbuh?

How did Muhammed pbuh know to make muslims to turn and face the kabba centuries after Abraham and Ismael?
Originally Posted by confused-rflmn
(Huh? Turn and face a "ratio"? What? This is total contrived silliness.)
Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
Unless I'm mistaken, the calculations in the video are dependent on the Greenwich Meridian, an arbitrary line designated by BRITAIN that did not exist until 1851.

I'd love to see the Quranic verse that discusses this fact.

Or...could it be that someone is so desperate to prove their faith that they're crafting calculations to fit their thesis, and not the other way around?
Exactly. The very interesting and informed Wiki article, noted elsewhere in this thread, discusses and evaluates it extensively, and notes that it's use is not "absolute", but rather it's often only APPROXIMATED, and was based on an arbitrary aesthetic consideration, and only then was it contemplated and somewhat formalized.

The article also notes that it was largely an invention of Greek architecture, and it's use is not absolute. As well, many many examples now exist of people adapting designs to it after the fact.

As noted here by rayne...

Originally Posted by rayneinspain View Post
... It is no different that other devout people seeing "signs" in weather disasters or scriptures that supposedly talk about Pres. Obama.

No amount of debunking will convince otherwise...

"Reality is not to be trusted unless it fits perfectly into one's staunch thesis!".
Originally Posted by Fred314X View Post
And what, exactly, is the significance of a 1.618 ratio? (A ratio between what and what?)
Excellent question, Fred. I'd particulary like to see the OP author's reasoned response to the fact that Mecca's so-called Golden Position is only related to the rather arbitrary positioning of the United Kingdom's Greenwich Meridian, a British invention they created solely for their Imperial Navy's navigation…

The question to the OP's author here about it's actual significance is most valid. Let's continue though, shall we?


How did all of them know that same golden ratio of 1.618 of the creation in MAN and UNIVERSE also is the golden Mean Ratio of planet earth situated in Makkah city. And Kabba is the golden mean ratio of the city of Makka.?

How did all of them know that same golden mean ratio of 1.618 that is of the Kabba which within the city of Mekka is exactly the same golden mean ratio of 1.618 of the city of Mekka within the whole planet earth?

If you kindly answer me how?

Originally Posted by rflmn
(OK: Kindly you say? Here goes:

What?? Whatever does any of this mean to us? A Golden Mean Ratio "of the city within the whole planet Earth"? Or: "also is the golden Mean Ratio of planet earth situated in Makkah city.

Whatever are you measuring here? Do you even know, mathematically, what a "ratio" is? Answer: It's a fixed relationship. between two measurables. As far as I know, the planet Earth is a sphere, for which there is no "ratio"! Even if we take Earth's long versus it's short axis lengths, we get a ration of: 1.00025734 to 1. Hmmmm...

As further examples that totally debunk your idea, the ratio of any of the planetary orbital diameters, including, let's say, that of the earth to the moon, and the earth to the sun, or the sun's diameter compared to that of the earth's, and so on and so forth, are always NOWHERE NEAR your mandatory Golden Ratio. Additionally, the length of my arm compared to my leg is not 1.618, nor is it a confirmed ratio of anything to anything else I care to compare it to.. Other examples of non-compliance abound.

So... your question has been asked and answered. You do understand that very few of us are familiar with the artificial architectures that you note and name here (and that I highlighted here in green...) right? (all architecture is artificial and contrived on the artist's drawing borad, btw: I mean no disrespect here..)

I'd say you have been hornswaggled! (Look it up! Or better; I'll do it for you!...here:

hornswaggled: Urban Dictionary: hornswaggled

"having had the wool pulled over your eyes!"

Last edited by rifleman; 11-01-2012 at 06:52 AM..
Old 11-01-2012, 06:49 AM
Location: Richardson, TX
8,701 posts, read 11,833,008 times
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Originally Posted by KCfromNC View Post
Let's hear it for the sun god,
He's a very fun god!
Ra! Ra! Ra!

Not sure if anyone's asked, but if this perfect ratio was supposed to be a sign from god, why did she make it an irrational number? Wouldn't 2:1 or 3:1 be a lot more of an obvious message than 1.6180339877...:1?
What about 8:11?
Old 11-01-2012, 09:43 AM
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,570 posts, read 21,713,951 times
Reputation: 18110
Thread is closed. An old threead that has been on and off topic too much to try salvage.
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