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Old 06-19-2007, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 2,514,952 times
Reputation: 466

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Wow. As a mod I can see the deleted posts above. I had no idea that by disagreeing with some of you I would anger you so badly. I thought this forum was for debate and exchanging ideas. I am very sorry if I have made anyone truly mad, that was never my intent.

I enjoy the religion forum for many reasons. Like most or many, one of the reasons is the chance to give my opinion on the subjects at hand. It is obvious to anyone that frequents the forum that my beliefs are different than a large percentage of my Christian brothers and sisters. Am I to therefore censor myself because by disagreeing I may offend? I'm sorry, but that just won't happen.

I think everyone needs to understand that there is a difference between respectfully disagreeing and debating with someone, as opposed to attacking someones character, or personal relationship with God, or intelligence...you get the idea. I have been attacked in these ways and only then will I point out when someone is going over the line. If they are simply disagreeing with me, as long as they don't state their opinion as fact, then I'm okay!

I personally feel that many get angry at me because I pose questions and scriptures that most Christians sweep under the rug as too difficult to answer or address. I am not EVER trying to stir up hurt feelings or anger. If I have done so, then I apologize. But PLEASE keep in mind that we are all adults here, and all have a right to state what we believe and not be personally attacked because we did so.

To get back on topic, I have reposted my rephrasing of the original question, for those who care or dare to answer...(and I know this may anger some of you, sorry...)

The topic of this thread is an interesting one, and is one of the questions that led me towards Universalism. Most Christians wouldn't want to admit it, but YES, according to their beliefs, it WOULD be better to just kill babies because that would at least guarantee their eternal soul would go to heaven. If given the chance to grow up, they might not accept Christ, and if they did, they might not keep all the rules, and therefore would end up in hell for all eternity.

Since this is what most truly do believe if they believe in traditional Christianity (even if they can't admit it to themselves), then why are they so adamantly against abortion? Aren't abortionists saving souls by the thousands?

Come on now Christians--be honest. If you truly believe in an eternal, fiery hell, then you know it's true!

Last edited by jeffncandace; 06-19-2007 at 11:36 AM.. Reason: add

 
Old 06-19-2007, 11:48 AM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,153 posts, read 17,416,008 times
Reputation: 5026
Sounds good, Jeff. We'll be watching to see if you walk the talk.
 
Old 06-19-2007, 12:00 PM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,153 posts, read 17,416,008 times
Reputation: 5026
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
Wow. As a mod I can see the deleted posts above. I had no idea that by disagreeing with some of you I would anger you so badly. I thought this forum was for debate and exchanging ideas. I am very sorry if I have made anyone truly mad, that was never my intent.

Hmmm. I thought I was the only one who has a problem with the way you say things. Note: I said the *way* you say things, not *what* you say.

It is obvious to anyone that frequents the forum that my beliefs are different than a large percentage of my Christian brothers and sisters. Am I to therefore censor myself because by disagreeing I may offend?
nobody is asking you to do that
I'm sorry, but that just won't happen.
same here

I think everyone needs to understand that there is a difference between respectfully disagreeing and debating with someone,

OK, now we're in agreement

I personally feel that many get angry at me because I pose questions and scriptures that most Christians sweep under the rug as too difficult to answer or address.
ummm - I don't think that's quite so. If you don't agree, you say we sweep things under the rug

To get back on topic, I have reposted my rephrasing of the original question, for those who care or dare to answer...(and I know this may anger some of you, sorry...)

The topic of this thread is an interesting one, and is one of the questions that led me towards Universalism. Most Christians wouldn't want to admit it, but YES, according to their beliefs, it WOULD be better to just kill babies

Whoa! According to their beliefs most Christians believe that it would be better to kill babies???!

And you don't think this charge would make "most Christians" angry? Do you really know "most" Christians? And, if you do, do they ignore the commandment against killing?

Since this is what most truly do believe if they believe in traditional Christianity (even if they can't admit it to themselves),

They don't, and it's been adequately explained why they don't. You just won't listen.

then why are they so adamantly against abortion? Aren't abortionists saving souls by the thousands?
Because abortion is killing?

Come on now Christians--be honest. If you truly believe in an eternal, fiery hell, then you know it's true!
Please...stop it. Twisting words will not make it true no matter how many times you repeat it.
 
Old 06-19-2007, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 2,514,952 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Sounds good, Jeff. We'll be watching to see if you walk the talk.
South, you are starting to sound like my judge and jury, and I'm not liking it! I have already been walking the talk. A hundred bucks says you disagree with my posts and that's why I'm being criticized!
 
Old 06-19-2007, 12:10 PM
 
Location: a nation with hope
13,153 posts, read 17,416,008 times
Reputation: 5026
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post
South, you are starting to sound like my judge and jury, and I'm not liking it! I have already been walking the talk. A hundred bucks says you disagree with my posts and that's why I'm being criticized!
Jeff, I'm merely asking you to be nice. Yes, I disagree with you, but that's OK. And it's OK that you disagree with me. I'm not attacking you. I have no problem with WHAT you are saying. I do have a problem with the WAY you are saying it. You see, the way you say it, sounds like an attack on the rest of us believers.

I'm making the request that you just, please, be agreeable when disagreeing.

Aren't I making this clear? I thought it such a simple request. It would make it a lot easier for everone to participate in a more positive, uplifting way.

and, btw, maybe you shouldn't delete posts you disagree with.
 
Old 06-19-2007, 01:15 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 2,514,952 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by southward bound View Post
Jeff, I'm merely asking you to be nice. Yes, I disagree with you, but that's OK. And it's OK that you disagree with me. I'm not attacking you. I have no problem with WHAT you are saying. I do have a problem with the WAY you are saying it. You see, the way you say it, sounds like an attack on the rest of us believers.

I'm making the request that you just, please, be agreeable when disagreeing.

Aren't I making this clear? I thought it such a simple request. It would make it a lot easier for everone to participate in a more positive, uplifting way.

and, btw, maybe you shouldn't delete posts you disagree with.
Excuse me!? South, I have NEVER deleted a post simply because I disagree with it? Where? You are crossing a line, and I don't appreciate it.

South, you are all warm and gooey on top and poison underneath with the way you are "talking" to me right now. I also don't appreciated be condescended to.

And are you insinuating that I am not a believer? I notice that I said yuck earlier, but I never questioned someone's personal relationship with God! You are embodying the typical judgemental Christian on these forums right now by saying what's allowed and insinuating what's not. At least I say what I mean and mean what I say!
 
Old 06-19-2007, 01:17 PM
 
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
2,180 posts, read 4,997,059 times
Reputation: 810
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffncandace View Post

I am not EVER trying to stir up hurt feelings or anger.

Then stop posting smart-alec reponses such as "Whoa. Jihad!" It comes across as condescending and mocking. You say there is a difference between respectfully disagreeing with someone and attacking their character, but when you make comments about how I won't answer a particular question because the subject is going off-topic - saying something like "...how typical..." - that to me is a personal attack, because you're unjustifiably ascribing a characteristic to me (that I act like a typical Christian), but you don't even know me.

You also state that you pose questions that Christians sweep under the rug because they are too difficult to answer, but the truth is that when we DO answer them, people don't accept our answers. They dismiss them and deride us for believing such a way, as if we're a bunch of idiots.

I'd also like to point out that I'm still a bit miffed that some of my posts were deleted, supposedly because they were off-topic, but YOURS and some others were off-topic as well, and they have remained. That's rather unfair and smacks of favoritism to me.

So from now on, I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.

Last edited by Pathwalker; 06-19-2007 at 01:26 PM..
 
Old 06-19-2007, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 2,514,952 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by WCRob View Post
Then stop posting smart-alec reponses such as "Whoa. Jihad!" It comes across as condescending and mocking. You say there is a difference between respectfully disagreeing with someone and attacking their character, but when you make comments about how I won't answer a particular question because the subject is going off-topic - saying something like "...how typical..." - that to me is a personal attack, because you're unjustifiably ascribing a characteristic to me (that I act like a typical Christian), but you don't even know me.

You also state that you pose questions that Christians sweep under the rug because they are too difficult to answer, but the truth is that when we DO answer them, people don't accept our answers. They dismiss them and deride us for believing such a way, as if we're a bunch of idiots.

I'd also like to point out that I'm still a bit miffed that some of my posts were deleted, supposedly because they were off-topic, but YOURS were off-topic as well, and they have remained. That's rather unfair and smacks of favoritism to me.

So from now on, I'm just going to keep my mouth shut.
You already said you were! What changed? And I didn't delete them! I don't know which posts you are referring to!

That being said, Rob, I will put this out here for the whole world to read---I humbly and sincerely apologize for hurting your feelings. The "jihad" comment was indeed smart-alecky.

In regards to my "how typical" remark, I think that it is still valid. You asked a question, I answered, then you accused me of going off topic, when in fact I was just answering your question! Then you wouldn't answer mine! That is indeed "typical" of most Christians on this forum, IMO. (The question at hand will be ignored if it's too difficult.) It isn't meant as a character slam, and I don't think that it was. I'm sorry you do.

I really had no clue I was so despised on this forum. It's a bummer. Again Rob, sorry.
 
Old 06-19-2007, 01:50 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,834 posts, read 17,328,764 times
Reputation: 3722
Boy Jeff, I bet you didn't think you'd have to babysit so many emotions when you signed up for mod, did ya? I know, I've been there.

Great job Jeff! Keep up the good work. I like the way you put things. It challenges and makes me even uncomfortable sometimes, but interesting nonetheless.
 
Old 06-19-2007, 02:12 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, MI
3,490 posts, read 2,514,952 times
Reputation: 466
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
Boy Jeff, I bet you didn't think you'd have to babysit so many emotions when you signed up for mod, did ya? I know, I've been there.

Great job Jeff! Keep up the good work. I like the way you put things. It challenges and makes me even uncomfortable sometimes, but interesting nonetheless.
Thanks Magellan! No, I didn't know, but here we are...

Thanks for the kudos. I like the way I put things too, LOL! I WANT to challenge people, and yes, even at times make them uncomfortable! If nothing else, maybe I'll make someone think, ya know? Again, thanks...
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