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Luke 18:16-17
16But Jesus called them unto him, and said, Suffer little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
17Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child shall in no wise enter therein.
MBG
Why do I get the impression you are skirting the question? I will ask again; do little babies go to Heaven before they are concious of Christ or even religion?The verse you quoted only explains that Christ rebuked the Apostles for attempting to send the children away. It further explains that the Kingdom of Heaven is equally accessable to all and that one must have faith as a little child to receive the Kingdom; it does not say that little children are accepted into the Kingdom. I am asking you to make a stand and state your position in your own words defended by scripture.
The topic of this thread is an interesting one, and is one of the questions that led me towards Universalism. Most Christians wouldn't want to admit it, but YES, according to their beliefs, it WOULD be better to just kill babies because that would at least guarantee their eternal soul would go to heaven. If given the chance to grow up, they might not accept Christ, and if they did, they might not keep all the rules, and therefore would end up in hell for all eternity.
Since this is what most truly do believe if they believe in traditional Christianity (even if they can't admit it to themselves), then why are they so adamantly against abortion? Aren't abortionists saving souls by the thousands?
Come on now Christians--be honest. If you truly believe in an eternal, fiery hell, then you know it's true!
Why do I get the impression you are skirting the question? I will ask again; do little babies go to Heaven before they are concious of Christ or even religion?The verse you quoted only explains that Christ rebuked the Apostles for attempting to send the children away. It further explains that the Kingdom of Heaven is equally accessable to all and that one must have faith as a little child to receive the Kingdom; it does not say that little children are accepted into the Kingdom. I am asking you to make a stand and state your position in your own words defended by scripture.
There is no sin in a child who is just born (no original sin) babies and children have not had a chance to turn away from God or to sin.
No one is worthy because we will, all if allowed to grow, sin. But children are not separated from God as they are not capable of sinning yet...
MBG
Actually MBG, Irishmom's post using Scripture was a reply to someone else. She is accurate in that it appears the post in dispute (your post) was in reply to hers that was in reply to mine. I'm stuck on threaded mode, so I see the little tree that shows who has responded to what post; in linear mode, this isn't always clear. However, I've noticed sometimes that the C-D software sometimes throws my posts in inexplicable places; perhaps this happened to your reply to Irishmom, or you were confused as to the progression of posts.
I was replying to something from yesterday Blueberry.
Not to your conversation with her. That is why I posted the posts in question... sorry can be confusing. Something must have gone really wrong....
MBG
The topic of this thread is an interesting one, and is one of the questions that led me towards Universalism. Most Christians wouldn't want to admit it, but YES, according to their beliefs, it WOULD be better to just kill babies because that would at least guarantee their eternal soul would go to heaven. If given the chance to grow up, they might not accept Christ, and if they did, they might not keep all the rules, and therefore would end up in hell for all eternity.
Since this is what most truly do believe if they believe in traditional Christianity (even if they can't admit it to themselves), then why are they so adamantly against abortion? Aren't abortionists saving souls by the thousands?
Come on now Christians--be honest. If you truly believe in an eternal, fiery hell, then you know it's true!
You guys, this is getting off topic. Everyone slow down, take a deep breath. Please go back to the original topic of the question at hand.
You guys, this is getting off topic. Everyone slow down, take a deep breath. Please go back to the original topic of the question at hand.
Well I already answered that eventually I think all are saved and will be brought to heaven. But then again that's what started the off topic stuff in the first place, so now I'm not a Christain according to some.
Location: Somewhere along the path to where I'd like to be.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom
Ok whatever....again you are a literalist, I am not. I don't think God is contained on or by the pages of a book.
What other way can the verse be interpreted? Or do you not believe Jesus actually said that?
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom
Like I said I don't think His Word ended with the bible. I think it belittles God to think all he intended is on the pages of one book. I think the bible is a good guide but not all encompassing. I think God is bigger than that.
I likewise believe Jesus said and did more than what is recorded in the Bible. But that doesn't mean I think anything else that He said or did would contradict what HAS been recorded.
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom
Well I can't help you with that. My faith is very personal to me. I do not reject the bible, I just don't think it stops there. There is a difference. I don't believe it was ever meant to be taken literally and I think there is a lot of man's influence permeated through out. But I find it hard to believe that you do not agree that one's relationship with God is personal. That is my only point, that I know for myself that God approves of my beliefs. If He didn't I don't think He would have worked so many miracles into my life. That's all I'm saying. You don't need to agree, just accept that because I don't have the same beliefs as you that it doesn't make my beliefs wrong for me. Yours are fine for you but they would go against who I believe God to be. Faith being based on belief and not fact we all need to agree to disagree.
Yes, Irishmom, you DO reject the Bible. You may not think you do, but when you claim that it was written by man, and that it has changed over the centuries, then the core of your message is that you DO indeed reject it. I posted a specific verse, and your reply to me was that I was a literalist - which, FYI, I'm NOT a literalist when it comes to everything in the Bible. But as I asked above, what other way can the verse be interpreted? It's clear. At least, to ME it is.
If you want to get to a secluded beautiful resort, and the only expert who truly knows the way to get there sends you a letter stating "Don't take the interstate highway, because it will only lead you to a dead end at a volcano. Take the narrow side-road instead, and it will get you where you want to be." - does that mean something different from what it clearly states?
Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought at some point in the forums you claimed to be a Christian. So that means you believe in Jesus, correct? But I'm curious....from where do you derive your beliefs about Him?
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishmom
I do not hate you, I feel sad for you.
The same can be said to you. You DO realize that, don't you?
Well I already answered that eventually I think all are saved and will be brought to heaven. But then again that's what started the off topic stuff in the first place, so now I'm not a Christain according to some.
Ah, Irishmom...welcome to the Heretic Club. What is black and white to some is just that, and they will forever refuse to see what you are saying, and will be quick to judge your personal relationship with God because you don't line up with what they believe.
I already know from your posts that you will be the better, bigger person when this happens. Don't let it get you down. You are right, and to those who think that the way she thinks is unbiblical, I implore you to read 600+ Scriptures Confirming Universal Salvation . Irishmom and I are reading the same Bible as you and getting something different out of it than you are. Be careful not to belittle that.
Ah, Irishmom...welcome to the Heretic Club. What is black and white to some is just that, and they will forever refuse to see what you are saying, and will be quick to judge your personal relationship with God because you don't line up with what they believe.
I already know from your posts that you will be the better, bigger person when this happens. Don't let it get you down. You are right, and to those who think that the way she thinks is unbiblical, I implore you to read 600+ Scriptures Confirming Universal Salvation . Irishmom and I are reading the same Bible as you and getting something different out of it than you are. Be careful not to belittle that.
Oh so I'm really a Christain Heretic....LOL Good to know.
They either won't read your verses or they will tell you that they are out of context. But I know what God really intended and that's good enough for me.
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Good to know.