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Old 05-24-2010, 06:38 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,094,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
But all christians do is prepare for death, I suspect many forget to live in the process. I choose to live, then I'll be dead when that is done.

To the christians that waste all their time with rituals, kowtowing, talking to imaginary deities, weekly, or more frequent meetings, giving away 10% of gross, etc. etc., well you are welcome to it, but I suggest you are on a fools errand, as you like everyone else will just be dead in the end.
If you enjoy something and are helping others I don't see why that's automatically a waste of time.

Let us take a juvenile atheist analogy I often hear, the pink unicorn. A man spends several hours a day talking to the pink unicorn. He also goes to groups where they discuss unicorns and has friends in the unicorn group. They raise money to have a horse preserve because they've determined the unicorns are like horses so they like horses. At some point he dies well-liked by unicorn believers and is survived by his unicorn revering wife. The life he led is silly, but to say he wasn't "really living" or "wasting his time" is debatable. He had friends, he had a wife, and he maybe saved the lives of some horses.

Granted all this is assuming religion is false. Even doing that what we religious have done is have a sense of community, be aware of things greater than our own needs, been part of a continuous tradition, struggled to improve ourselves, talked to ourselves, and died never knowing we were wrong. If we're right we'll know we're right at death. If you're right you've gained maybe an hour a week, more fornication, and the ability to feel superior to those you deem deluded. However after you die you won't know you were right because you won't know anything after you die. If you're wrong what happens is debated. Some say Hell, some say a Limbo of earthly pleasure, and some say Heaven after maybe an instruction phase. Still if you're wrong you'll know it, if the Christian is wrong about the afterlife they'll never really know that. And I think that annoys you as I believe you were the one that essentially said "Once you quit existing than you'll be disappointed" despite that statement making no sense at all.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:52 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,080,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post

Let us take a juvenile atheist analogy I often hear, the pink unicorn.
Uhhhhh.... nor do Atheists believe in any other <wink><wink> imaginary things such as unicorn's. Clearly you have no concept of the rational of knowing there are no imaginary deities, up in the sky or anyplace else.

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Old 05-24-2010, 09:17 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,094,704 times
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I don't think it was that unclear what I meant. Still I know things have to be very clear for certain rational atheists to understand them. So let me rewrite that part for the clarity you likely need.

"Let us take a juvenile analogy that I often hear atheists use when discussing religion, that belief in God is like belief in an invisible pink unicorn. Starting with that let us imagine an actual man who spends several hours a day talking to the pink unicorn. He also goes to groups where they discuss unicorns and has friends in the unicorn group... (the rest continues as was)"

Granted I'm still using an analogy and a hypothetical person. I assume though you do understand such things, don't you?
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:57 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,080,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
I don't think it was that unclear what I meant. Still I know things have to be very clear for certain rational atheists to understand them. So let me rewrite that part for the clarity you likely need.

"Let us take a juvenile analogy that I often hear atheists use when discussing religion, that belief in God is like belief in an invisible pink unicorn. Starting with that let us imagine an actual man who spends several hours a day talking to the pink unicorn. He also goes to groups where they discuss unicorns and has friends in the unicorn group... (the rest continues as was)"

Granted I'm still using an analogy and a hypothetical person. I assume though you do understand such things, don't you?
Nonsense is nonsense, a pink unicorn quickly classified your analogy as nonsense.

Were there pink unicorns on the ark
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:03 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
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islam is not a part of terrorism



RIGHT!!!!!!, they were really just Jehovas Witnesses that flew the planes into the twin towers, or maybe Mormons.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:12 PM
 
433 posts, read 528,503 times
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Getting back to the thread, Islamic religion like any other religions is designed to control followers. Is this related to terrorism? It depends on who is using the religion.

Unfortunately, some terrorist leaders discovered the convenience of Islamic religion. Some traditionally Islamic nations such as Pakistan, Yemen are becoming hot breeding grounds for terrorists in the name of Islamic religion. I am not an expert on the subjects, but there are many intel organizations that keep track of these groups. You can Google it and see how they use Islam to achieve their goals.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:20 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,094,704 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Nonsense is nonsense, a pink unicorn quickly classified your analogy as nonsense.

Were there pink unicorns on the ark
Okay, it's not like I really thought you understood what I wrote I just had hope. Your response indicates that was false hope. So anyway try to re-read what I actually wrote and think about it for a second before you respond. And when you respond try to have an actual response rather than some one-liner, because that's not a real response. Lastly when you talk to me talk to me, don't talk to some Fundamentalist stereotype you've created in your own mind. I'm not that person and probably no one is.

Anyway as for the things religion can inspire a person to do you, well maybe not you personally, may read the following.

Why We Became Freedom Riders - washingtonpost.com

Relevant passage

"But the church I went to, Little Falls United Presbyterian, taught that we were all equal in the eyes of God. I just felt that if we were going to teach this and say it, we should mean it. I was a member of the youth group at the church. Apparently, through the black YMCA, some of the black high school kids would come to our youth meetings."
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:51 PM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,080,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Lastly when you talk to me talk to me, don't talk to some Fundamentalist stereotype you've created in your own mind. I'm not that person and probably no one is.
Well on that count, my bad, I do have the habit of lumping many into the fanatical nut job category, when in fact many don't often don't fit that description, but they are out there. The extremes of beliefs, i.e. seeing stories in the bible as actual and factually accurate descriptions just hurts my head, as I can't imagine walking around believing many of these tales, ignoring all the logic and evidence that make it so absurd. I have unfairly lumped you into that category.

But the fundy stereotype does exist, and I have met some here in the bible belt, so it is just not the extreme ones on here as I have seen them in the flesh. I find them extremely distasteful due to there visceral intolerance of anyone outside their flock.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:08 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 23,094,704 times
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Well okay I accept the apology.

Basically I believe in pretty much everything science shows when we're discussing natural history or natural events. A 14 billion-year-old Universe, Quantum Mechanics, evolution of species, and so forth. I'm a little iffy on how life began on Earth and on somethings related to Early Man, but everything else I'm pretty mainstream science.

And I also think most religions have some good qualities as do most atheists. I believe in religious toleration, which means even if I think a religion is mostly stupid I think it should be tolerated to avoid a greater problem. Granted there are limits on that toleration. A religion that actively encourages hatred to other religions and violent actions against others is not really tolerable.

Some say Islam is one that does encourage violence, to get back to the topic, and so shouldn't be tolerated. Although the Qur'an does contain violence I think many Muslims are not violent and that this is particularly true of American Muslims. (As well as most Balkan, Turkish, Senegalese, and Malian Muslims) They may interpret the Qur'an in a mystical fashion or they may give priority to the Meccan verses rather than the Medina verses. Or something else. So generally I think they'd also deserve tolerance. And their value on literacy and charity I find commendable.
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:51 AM
 
16,308 posts, read 25,080,753 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Well okay I accept the apology.

Basically I believe in pretty much everything science shows when we're discussing natural history or natural events. A 14 billion-year-old Universe, Quantum Mechanics, evolution of species, and so forth. I'm a little iffy on how life began on Earth and on somethings related to Early Man, but everything else I'm pretty mainstream science.
Reality is that no one knows the answer, but if the answer is to be found, I'll bet on modern science to discover it, and not give any credence to the writings of men that believed the earth was flat, etc.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
And I also think most religions have some good qualities as do most atheists. I believe in religious toleration, which means even if I think a religion is mostly stupid I think it should be tolerated to avoid a greater problem. Granted there are limits on that toleration. A religion that actively encourages hatred to other religions and violent actions against others is not really tolerable.
I am tolerant of religion, those that practice it, UNTIL they decide in their arrogance that they should impose their beliefs on me, through starting wars, passing laws, teaching fantasy as fact in our schools, and much more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Some say Islam is one that does encourage violence, to get back to the topic, and so shouldn't be tolerated. Although the Qur'an does contain violence I think many Muslims are not violent and that this is particularly true of American Muslims. (As well as most Balkan, Turkish, Senegalese, and Malian Muslims) They may interpret the Qur'an in a mystical fashion or they may give priority to the Meccan verses rather than the Medina verses. Or something else. So generally I think they'd also deserve tolerance. And their value on literacy and charity I find commendable.
The extremest of any belief system are the threat to us all. I really don't care what the books of these systems say, it is the ACTIONS that people take due to their interpretation that presents the reality of that religion. Perhaps the moderates in any of these should step up to the plate and no longer remain silent but express their outrage at the hijacking of their belief.

How many christians protested when George Bush Sr. said the didn't believe Atheists should even be citizens? How many have protested when the likes of Pat Robertson spews his visceral hated?

The silence of the followers indicates their support. If you mis-represent me, I shall protest. When someone mis-represents your interpenetration of christianity do you protest or remain silent?
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