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Old 05-21-2010, 07:42 PM
 
40,409 posts, read 26,920,307 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
wow guy did you really just pull the house of war card on me. house of war is something that must be established by the majority of muslims and then only the highest muslim scholars establish it. you want to tell me when and where this happened because as far as me and the rest of the billions of muslims who are unaware that its been established, id really like to know how you came to this conclusion.
I don't have time to educate you and eliminate your ignorance about the religion you have just embraced. Dar al Harb was established most recently specifically when Israel was created and has never been rescinded.
Quote:
the religion is evil, deceptive? what the hell are you reading? where in the quran or a hadith does it make the religion evil or deceptive. show me some verses and i swear if one more person brings up that infidels bs... infadels were people that fought against and wanted to kill innocent muslims. a muslim can only defend themselves when they are threatened with thier life, they can fight back, its called self defense and yes back then when the ruling was established to "kill the infadels" god was making it ok for muslims to protect themselves. you need to read the entire story of that war and then maybe, just maybe it will make more sense and you can stop criticizing a muslims way of life
I refuse to waste my time pointing out things from your own religion you should have learned on your own. I have many posts revealing the intolerance and true character of your "Religion of Peace" from the Qu'ran, hadiths and your own scholars. I will only provide a sample summary here.


Fighting for the Cause of Allah (Jihaad)
There are 199 references to jihad in the most standard collection of hadith, Sahih al-Bukhari, all assume that jihad means warfare.

Jihad is war against the infidels and . . . "War is deceit."(Translation of Sahih Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 52, Number 267, 268, 269).

Muslim traditionalists see that the world is divided into two houses: the House of Islamic Peace (Dar al-Salam). . . in which Muslim governments rule and Muslim law prevails . . . and the House of War (Dar al-Harb), the rest of the world, still inhabited. The presumption is that by natural law these domains will compete and fighting is inevitable . . . therefore the duty of jihad will continue (interrupted only by truces) . . . until all the world either adopts the Muslim faith or submits to Muslim rule.

Some more hadith indicating why so-called "moderate Muslims secretly support the jihadis:

‘He who provides for a mujahid in the Way of Allah the Almighty, it is as if he himself has made jihad; and he who has supported the family of a mujahid with an act of goodness, it is as if he himself has made jihad.’ (Transmitted by Al Bukhari, Muslim, Abu Dawud and Al-Tirmidhi)

He who meets Allah with no trace of jihad on him will meet Allah with a flaw in him.’ (Transmitted by Al-Tirmidhi and Ibn Majah

Dr A. M. A. Fahmy
International Islamic Forum:

"Jihad is an obligation from Allah on every Muslim and cannot be ignored nor evaded. Allah has ascribed great importance to jihad and has made the reward of the martyrs and the fighters in His way a splendid one. Only those who have acted similarly and who have modelled themselves upon the martyrs in their performance of jihad can join them in this reward. Furthermore, Allah has specifically honoured the Mujahideen with certain exceptional qualities, both spiritual and practical, to benefit them in this world and the next. Their pure blood is a symbol of victory in this world and the mark of success and felicity in the world to come."


The author of the "Majma' al-Anhar fi Sharh Multaqal-Abhar", in describing the rules of jihad according to the Hanafi School, said:

"Jihad linguistically means to exert one's utmost effort in word and action; in the Sharee’ah it is the fighting of the unbelievers, and involves all possible efforts that are necessary to dismantle the power of the enemies of Islam including beating them, plundering their wealth, destroying their places of worship and smashing their idols. This means that jihad is to strive to the utmost to ensure the strength of Islam by such means as fighting those who fight you and the dhimmies (if they violate any of the terms of the treaty) and the apostates (who are the worst of unbelievers, for they disbelieved after they have affirmed their belief).

It is fard (obligatory) on us to fight with the enemies. The Imam must send a military expedition to the Dar-al-Harb every year at least once or twice, and the people must support him in this. If some of the people fulfil the obligation, the remainder are released from the obligation. If this fard kifayah (communal obligation) cannot be fulfilled by that group, then the responsibility lies with the closest adjacent group, and then the closest after that etc., and if the fard kifayah cannot be fulfilled except by all the people, it then becomes a fard ‘ayn (individual obligation), like prayer on everyone of the people. This obligation is by virtue of what He, the Almighty, said:
‘Then fight the polytheists...!’

From the Qu'ran

Surat-al-Baqarah (2), ayah 216
Jihad is ordained for you (Muslims) though you dislike it, and it may be that you dislike something which is good for you and that you like something which is bad for you. Allah knows but you do not know.’

Surat-at-Tawbah (9), ayah 29
Fight against those who believe not in Allah nor in the Last Day, nor forbid that which has been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger and those who acknowledge not the Religion of Truth (i.e. Islam), from among the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.’
(The People of the book are Jews and Christians)

(Surat at-Tawbah (9), ayah 5)
and by what the Prophet (PBUH) said:
‘Jihad is in effect until the Day of Judgement’

Last edited by MysticPhD; 05-21-2010 at 08:18 PM..
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:03 PM
 
433 posts, read 527,719 times
Reputation: 96
Sure, no one wants to admit being related to terrorism -- Islam is no exception.

Just remember this: whenever innocent bystanders are killed (especially under the intention of "striking fears in the hearts of unbelievers"), it undermines the causes of the doers -- people tends to see them as criminals instead.
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Old 05-21-2010, 08:12 PM
 
16,300 posts, read 25,035,139 times
Reputation: 8284
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Why do your statements indicate reality any better than his? You're making the claim here so back it up with empirical evidence. Show me that the Qur'an, the Hadith, or mainstream Islam says suicide bombers will be rewarded with 72 virgins.
Books don't mean squat, christianity proves that, I was refering to the reality of women in islamic countries, crap like this:
Somali girl 'pleaded for mercy' before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped .

Are you defend this type of atrocity?
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:24 PM
 
397 posts, read 536,295 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sproodle View Post
If Islam is a peaceful religion, why are all the terrorists Muslim? As far as I know, killing 3000 people because you disagree with their culture is not peaceful.

Even the most peaceful Muslims think of the people who want to destroy the US as heroes.
joking right? not all terrorist are muslim. the ons who claim to be and commit suicide and beat thier women and whatever else they do doesnt make it part of a religion. u got people in america raping their own kids and babies, people killing people becuase of gangs and disagreements but yes lets point the fingers at the muslims, give it a rest dude
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:49 PM
 
397 posts, read 536,295 times
Reputation: 54
mystic, spare me, if i spend my time disproving all of what you just said will u change your mind about islam, if not im wasting my time. i can explain every single one to where it would make sense to your average joe, meaning if ur anti islam then nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise so let me know before i waste MY TIME
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:15 PM
 
40,409 posts, read 26,920,307 times
Reputation: 6077
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
mystic, spare me, if i spend my time disproving all of what you just said will u change your mind about islam, if not im wasting my time. i can explain every single one to where it would make sense to your average joe, meaning if ur anti islam then nothing anyone says will convince you otherwise so let me know before i waste MY TIME
Don't waster your time. The only good things in Islam were plagiarized from Christianity and corrupted by Mohammad for his goal of world conquest. It is a sibling rivalry religion of conquest . . . not peace or tolerance.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:27 PM
 
397 posts, read 536,295 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Books don't mean squat, christianity proves that, I was refering to the reality of women in islamic countries, crap like this:
Somali girl 'pleaded for mercy' before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped .

Are you defend this type of atrocity?
islamist? no people stoned her, whether you or the media put that label on them, theyre just people, it has nothing to do with islam.
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Old 05-21-2010, 10:53 PM
 
Location: 30-40°N 90-100°W
13,856 posts, read 23,045,770 times
Reputation: 6693
Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Books don't mean squat, christianity proves that, I was refering to the reality of women in islamic countries, crap like this:
Somali girl 'pleaded for mercy' before Islamists stoned her to death for being raped .

Are you defend this type of atrocity?
You know "I don't like your question and I think you're a bad person for even asking it" is not actually an answer.

There are many Islamic nations with many different social situations. You can't honestly expect that throwing Somalia at me is an answer to anything. Somalia or Saudi are just two Muslims nations out of dozens. Besides that I took a whole semester on Radical Islam. I can tell you of women gang-raped by Islamists so the Islamists could later kill her for adultery. Or men crucified, literally crucified, for stealing. Or entire villages getting burned down for being polytheist. Or Islamists using mentally disabled women as suicide bombers. Or killing peaceful Trappist monks or what have you.

However that still doesn't answer my question. Not all Islam is Islamist radicalism. And besides that you didn't show that Islam justifies suicide bombing or anything else I asked about. All you did is deflect and then try to blame me for even questioning you. That's not very rational of you.
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Old 05-21-2010, 11:15 PM
 
Location: Rome, Georgia
2,706 posts, read 3,349,658 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
You mean like the bible thumping, racist thinking southern U S?
Un-called for, unfair, ignorant, bigoted, and obscene. Your generalizations are an aberration. Perhaps I should excuse it due to your regions lack of couth?
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Old 05-22-2010, 12:26 AM
 
397 posts, read 536,295 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Don't waster your time. The only good things in Islam were plagiarized from Christianity and corrupted by Mohammad for his goal of world conquest. It is a sibling rivalry religion of conquest . . . not peace or tolerance.
typical, thats what i thought. the truth is hard bro, sorry u cant accept it
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