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Old 05-22-2010, 09:28 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
You just don't get it, do ya? What does ANYBODY need with an abundance while others suffer?!! Should I say YOU should be thrown in jail for life because you were soooooooo selfish to buy a computer, or a car, or a 15th pair of shoes...or WHATEVER it is you don't REALLY need...while some disabled widow sits in a freezing cold trailer eating a crust of stale bread, because she has no money for fuel oil or food?!!

That widow could probably turn to the church for help...and have a lot better chance of getting it than from ANYWHERE else. Christian missions run more food pantries and soup kitchens than all other organizations put together. I know...I've been donating to them for years...and putting in time helping at the relief centers. Some of the most caring, loving, selfless, most generous people I ever met, I meet at those places. Some work for YEARS...for NOTHING!!! It's my PRIVILEGE to know them. They would help that widow in a second. Fill her fuel oil tank, and BRING her meals. And send some dudes over to fix her broken steps and give her a ride to her doctors appointment. They do that kind of stuff ALL the time...all over the WORLD. I will call them on the bad stuff...but I won't hesitate to give them props for the good stuff they do.

Could they...SHOULD they, do more?...of course. We ALL, can and should do more. What YOU been doing lately Bro!! How much time do you put in helping others? How much of a percentage of YOUR scratch do you donate? Ever buy any frivolous item, while you know tens of thousands die from starvation every day? Yeah...I'm sure you're right there with Mother Theresa...who came from that organization you are running down. Give me a break...who are you to talk smack about organizations that actually DO help feed starving people and assist the poor and sick of the world?
What you need to get straight in your mind is this. The church does nothing except accept gifts from people. For the most part from people who were brainwashed with the hogwash when they were infants and small children. They govern what is done with other people's money. It's not a democracy...the church rules.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:44 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Actually according to the book you put your faith in, your deity is the worst of the worst, murdering a documented 2,000,000+ and another 8,000,000 or so where body counts are not specific.

Lets see, George Bush started two wars because in his delusion he believed god told him to. He called it a crusade, the other side jihad. You need to really watch the evening news more often.
Dude, you need to brush up on some history.

Joe Stalin and Mao Zedong together account for the equivalent of ALL the other mass murders in all of history PUT TOGETHER.

Atheists are the KILLING CHAMPS by a LONGSHOT! I suggest you check it out a little better.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:49 PM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Asheville Native View Post
Actually according to the book you put your faith in, your deity is the worst of the worst, murdering a documented 2,000,000+ and another 8,000,000 or so where body counts are not specific.
1: Show any evidential support for this claim.

2: Even if you could support it, which I don't think you can, this is far less than forms of Marxism killed in a century.

*b: This does not mean I am equating Marxism to atheism.

3: These deaths would have occurred over centuries and in many cases it's hard to know which statements in the Bible represent God and which represent nationalism.

4: Life in ancient times was harsher and a "kill or be killed" mentality made more sense than. Killing children was often done to avoid future vengeance as is implied in some episodes of Star Trek concerning Klingons and also in samurai movies.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:54 PM
 
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Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
What you need to get straight in your mind is this. The church does nothing except accept gifts from people. For the most part from people who were brainwashed with the hogwash when they were infants and small children. They govern what is done with other people's money. It's not a democracy...the church rules.
I'm talking about the charitable work they do with those "gifts".
Should they do more...yes.
Have they done more charitable work than any other organization in history with the time and money donated...yes.

In any poll EVER taken...Atheists are the LEAST charitable group there is...Christians are the MOST.
Don't believe me? You are sitting at a computer connected to the internet...check it out...you'll see.

But this is getting off topic...if we want to debate this, there are more appropriate threads...or you can start a new one.
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Old 05-22-2010, 10:31 PM
 
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Originally Posted by GldnRule View Post
Atheists are the LEAST charitable group there is...Christians are the MOST.
Do I get some kind of reference on that or do I just have to accept your word for it?
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Old 05-22-2010, 11:58 PM
 
6,793 posts, read 4,073,236 times
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Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Do I get some kind of reference on that or do I just have to accept your word for it?
You are sitting at a computer connected to the internet and you need ME to reference it? WOW!

Here's whatcha do---Move the cursor to the "Search" line. Click on it. Type in... "Christian vs Atheist charity" and other similar search keys. Check it out.
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Old 05-23-2010, 01:50 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,973,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Melvin.George View Post
Do I get some kind of reference on that or do I just have to accept your word for it?
There have been studies of this by Gallup, Policy Review, and others.

Religious Attendance Relates to Generosity Worldwide

The explanations atheists give for this, which might even be valid, is that atheism itself is not a community but charities often need/use community activities to raise funds. They might support this by noting how important religion is to the person seems to be less linked, going by Gallup, to generosity than religious attendance itself. Christians have a built-in community to do charity and may be reminded of a charity when they attend services. And no it's not all giving so we can "convert the unbelievers", a good deal of it is to get people new wheelchairs or pay for their chemo or whatever.

If it helps you Gallup also indicates more religious countries also tend to have more ethnic intolerance.

More Religious Countries, More Perceived Ethnic Intolerance
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Old 05-23-2010, 04:50 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
There have been studies of this by Gallup, Policy Review, and others.

Religious Attendance Relates to Generosity Worldwide

The explanations atheists give for this, which might even be valid, is that atheism itself is not a community but charities often need/use community activities to raise funds. They might support this by noting how important religion is to the person seems to be less linked, going by Gallup, to generosity than religious attendance itself. Christians have a built-in community to do charity and may be reminded of a charity when they attend services. And no it's not all giving so we can "convert the unbelievers", a good deal of it is to get people new wheelchairs or pay for their chemo or whatever.

If it helps you Gallup also indicates more religious countries also tend to have more ethnic intolerance.

More Religious Countries, More Perceived Ethnic Intolerance
Thanks...I hear you but the reason I took him to task about it is simply because there are no figures available and no way to know how much those who do not believe contribute and to whom. One point is that there are many who do not bother to let people know what they believe...especially since in many walks of life it's very unpopular to be an unbeliever. There's just no way to prove how much those who do not believe contribute.

I was in the church and tithed for many years but a tenth of what I was making for most of those years could not match what my wife and I send to various charities, drives for breast cancer, Hatiian relief, Alzheimers, Salvation Army etc.

Do you suppose Warren Buffet and Bill Gates are big Christians? I notice that Bill and his wife's foundation is noted as one of the biggest and most generous in the world and Warren Buffet puts big bucks into it.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:45 AM
 
Location: 30-40N 90-100W
13,856 posts, read 22,973,253 times
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Billionaires are going to be outliers in a variety of ways. However yes it's true many of the wealthiest philanthropists were agnostic, atheistic, or irreligious. (Carnegie was not religious, Buffet certainly isn't, etc) Of course several of the wealthiest philanthropists are or were theists. (The Aga Khan is Ismaili, Rockefeller was Baptist, the Cadburies were Quaker, Hershey was nominally Mennonite, etc) I just don't know that it says much.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:24 AM
 
2,958 posts, read 2,165,533 times
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Originally Posted by Thomas R. View Post
Of course several of the wealthiest philanthropists are or were theists. (The Aga Khan is Ismaili, Rockefeller was Baptist, the Cadburies were Quaker, Hershey was nominally Mennonite, etc) I just don't know that it says much.
Or...are they like I was for decades...going to church and following the rules for the sake of society and never believing in virgin birth, healing by touching, miraculous feats and resurrection. I never did believe it...just went through the motions to keep peace in the family.
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