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Old 05-25-2010, 01:23 PM
 
Location: New York City
668 posts, read 824,051 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
this is a thread mainly toward people who dont believe that Allah is .... All-Loving,
Yep, All-Loving,...., except infidels!

Quotes from the Qur'an
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Old 05-25-2010, 02:07 PM
 
Location: egypt
1,215 posts, read 2,040,379 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
this is a thread mainly toward people who dont believe that Allah is All-Powerful All-Loving, people like Hueffenhardt, NOW BEAR IN MIND THIS IS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SOME WAY TO DISRESPECT, ITS SIMPLY TO TRY AND EXPLAIN who cannot 'grasp' this concept. i would have posted this on his thread but this is one that is "for" Allah and not against Allah.


If god is all-powerful, then all suffering is needless, because he could accomplish whatever purpose suffering serves without our actually having to experience suffering.

Allah only makes those who disbelieve in him suffer. theres only one purpose of life and that is to worship Allah. Enjoy your life, do what you will but remember the reason you are able to do all things through him is because of him.

If god is all-loving, he would have compassion on us and want to save us from needless suffering.

God loves every single one of his creations. whether it be living or non living, he would not create something without a purpose. ie he created the hell-fire. Allah is all loving but that does not mean he has to submit to you. he sent messengers to warn his people that if they do not obey him and worship him alone than there will be an unimaginable punishment. Insha Allah, he will save you from punishment. but just as a kid disobeys his parents and doesnt listen and doesnt listen then there will be punishment. not saying the parents dont love their child but in the same aspect the parents will not submit to their childs disobedience. there is a punishment. Allah has warned us of the hell-fire. The eternal place for those who disobey.

If god is all-powerful, he has the ability to save us from needless suffering.

Insha Allah, if Allah willed to do so he would save us from suffering of any type. he could destroy the hell-fire and take every soul out of it. Yet it is not in his will. He sent a messenger to everyone, all with one message. OBEY GOD. if you cannot follow this simple command that Allah has willed then you do not serve your purpose of creation, for this is the only reason he created human-kind and the jihn. If Allah had willed there would be no pain, no suffering, no hell-fire, but Allah knows what you know not. He knows the past, the present and the future. he knows before you were even born what your fate was but hes not going to stop you from doing anything, he knows what prayers he will answer and those which he wont, because he wills what he wills and knows what you dont.

Since we needlessly suffer, he either lacks the will or the ability to save us from needless suffering.

Subbhan Allah, Allah wills what he wills. Everything happens for a reason. Theres a reason for poor people, theres a reason for extremely wealthy people, theres a reason people fall into the hangs of lust and greed and theres a reason people suffer. Allah does not "lack" the will of anything. if its not in his will, its not because theres a "lack of", its simple not willed by Allah.

If he lacks the will, he is not all-loving.

Subbhan Allah, Allah does not lack will. He is All-Loving, but with loving theres comes lessons. Allah Loves those who worship him and those who do not, but the ones who whow him more "love" and obey him will be risen to a higher state and those who disobey/disbelieve, theres a place he has made for them as well. Its not that he doesnt love you. but all he ask is that you obey. You submit yourself to Allah and testify that no other diety is worthy of worship but him. Allah does not submit to you. Anyone who thinks that just being a good person and helping poeple or what have you, will see on the Day of Judgment that this is not all Allah asked for. God is most merciful however, those who recieve the message and refuse will face the wrath of God and recieve punishment for what he has prepared there-in the hell-fire. it is what he willed. it is what he has promised just as he promised paradise for those who obey, he has prepared the hell-fire for those who disobey.

If he lacks the ability, he is not all-powerful.

No one can imagine the power of Allah. You can see or hear of the most powerful person on earth and yet all that is ONLY done through the will of Allah. Think of the most powerful creation you have seen, and imagine that Allah has created that and so much more. He created mercy. Subbhan Allah, Allah created your ability to feel, see, smell, taste, and hear. He created your emotions, the way everything in this entire universe works together. All that you can think of Allah created, he even created your ability to think, and you say Allah is not All-Powerful?

Therefore, the existence of needless suffering stands as a testament that god cannot be both all-loving and all-powerful.

Allah is both All Loving and All-Powerful. He is not a part of his creation meaning that none of his creation can ever amount to Allahs Love, Allahs Power, Allahs Mercy. Imagine, when Allah created mercy he kept 99 parts to himself and only gave us one part. Think about the most merciful person you know and imagine that is only ONE part of the many parts of the mercy of Allah. None of his creation, no one can come close to how merciful Allah is.

If god really loves us, he knows we care about the pain we are in even if it seems small to him, he would want to spare us from needless suffering, even if it is only momentary.

Allah loves everyone, even those who disobey. But Allah will punish them for what they have done. The hell-fire was created for a purpose, just as everything else, joy, pain, death, sorrow and suffering. You cant ask why did Allah create suffering and simply rule out all the others. Allah created suffering as much as he created every other emotion. All of which have a purpose. Why did All create pain? suffering? torment? maybe as a taste of what to come if you disobey him. Why did Allah create joy or happiness? maybe to let you know what it will feel like in paradise. Allah created you. He knows what makes you hurt, what brings you pain, he knows what makes you happy and brings you joy. but its up to you which one you desire. Allah knows what you know not. He knows your fate but you still have time to show him that you do not want to spend eternity in the hell-fire, burning, churning with all the others. Prove to Allah, brother, submit yourself, Testify to him that he is the only one worthy of worship. Insha Allah you will enter the Paradise that Allah has Made for you and you will be under the shade of Allah on the Day of Judgement.

Insha Allah, i hope this helped you understand how Allah is All-Powerful and All-Loving.
i'm muslim myself , but i can't comperhend your entire massage here

are you trying to say that God loves all people ( those who believe and those who disbelieve , those who are good and those who are bad ) ?


i just disagree with you , you cant say for someone God loves you then says to him God will punish you in hell forever . if God will punish me then his love make no sense to me


(Verily, Allah does not like the transgressors-(mu’tadeen) ) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 87).

(And Allah does not like the Zalimun (oppressors, and wrong doers)) (Al-Imran 3:57).

(Verily, Allah likes not any arrogant boaster) (Luqman 31:18).

(Certainly, Allah likes not the treacherous) (Al-Anfal 8: 58).

(And Allah does not like the mufsidun (mischief makers)) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 64).

please clarify for us , which kind of love you are talking about
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:03 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elwill View Post
i'm muslim myself , but i can't comperhend your entire massage here

are you trying to say that God loves all people ( those who believe and those who disbelieve , those who are good and those who are bad ) ?


i just disagree with you , you cant say for someone God loves you then says to him God will punish you in hell forever . if God will punish me then his love make no sense to me


(Verily, Allah does not like the transgressors-(mu’tadeen) ) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 87).

(And Allah does not like the Zalimun (oppressors, and wrong doers)) (Al-Imran 3:57).

(Verily, Allah likes not any arrogant boaster) (Luqman 31:18).

(Certainly, Allah likes not the treacherous) (Al-Anfal 8: 58).

(And Allah does not like the mufsidun (mischief makers)) (Al-Ma’idah 5: 64).

please clarify for us , which kind of love you are talking about
what im saying is Allah loves all of his creation. just as a parent will always love thier kids, no matter what. however just as a parent punishes their child Allah has promised punishment for the evil-doers
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Old 05-25-2010, 08:23 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,927 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by catman View Post
So Allah's being "outside of his creation" means that he has no power to affect it? Then none of us have anything to worry about.

What a silly statement indeed. He created it but cannot interact with it?
Allah created us and he is All-Knowing. Allah knows when u do wrong and when yoi do good, he interacts with us everyday. i dont understand what tou mean when you say he does. Allah has power over everything and nothing happens without his will, is that not interacting? if he wills it it happens.
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Old 05-25-2010, 11:07 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,994,349 times
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Your Allah certainly 'wills' a lot of really bad things to happen, doesn't he? In what way does he "interact with us every day"? If he ever interacted with me, I think I would know it.

I don't understand what you were referring to with the statement "when you say he does". What did I say he does?
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Old 05-26-2010, 01:56 AM
 
39,206 posts, read 10,887,543 times
Reputation: 5096
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
what im saying is Allah loves all of his creation. just as a parent will always love thier kids, no matter what. however just as a parent punishes their child Allah has promised punishment for the evil-doers
Again the Problem of Evil argument put very succintly. The apparent contradiction between a loving god (the Islamic one in this case) and this eternal punishment idea is explained by punishing children. Why? To teach them to be better so they WOULDN'T NEED TO BE PUNISHED ANYMORE.

This 'learning curve' argument (or the evildoers in prison is another analogy) fails because, unless we are being misled by the Holy Books, this is not a learning curve but a one shot lifetime sentence. Worse, it is eternal torture, or so we are assured.

The problem of evil now ends up 'How can a god (Christian or Islamic) supposed to loving, just and good, torture his beloved children for eternity? Surely there would be something equating to limited punishment or imprisonment to teach people to do what this god wants, after death, when it is clear that there is a god, clear which one it is and clear what it wants.

At the moment, if there was no such god and all the Holy Books were written by men, it would not be in the least bit different, so God is not really giving his beloved children a fair chance.

You don't punish your children but leave it unclear why. Not unless you're some kind of sadist.

Which is one conclusion that comes from discussion of the Problem of Evil.

Over to you, O enlightened ones.
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Old 05-26-2010, 02:28 AM
 
Location: Neither here nor there
14,810 posts, read 14,015,695 times
Reputation: 32944
Here's my thoughts:

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Old 05-26-2010, 01:04 PM
 
Location: Earth, Milky Way
290 posts, read 342,989 times
Reputation: 128
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
Allah only makes those who disbelieve in him suffer.
This is my issue.
What kind of All-Loving God discriminates? In my view, a being who is All-Loving loves Unconditionally. Regardless of Race, Gender, Sex... AND belief systems.
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