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Old 05-24-2010, 09:19 PM
 
397 posts, read 534,626 times
Reputation: 54

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this is a thread mainly toward people who dont believe that Allah is All-Powerful All-Loving, people like Hueffenhardt, NOW BEAR IN MIND THIS IS IN NO WAY SHAPE OR FORM SOME WAY TO DISRESPECT, ITS SIMPLY TO TRY AND EXPLAIN who cannot 'grasp' this concept. i would have posted this on his thread but this is one that is "for" Allah and not against Allah.


If god is all-powerful, then all suffering is needless, because he could accomplish whatever purpose suffering serves without our actually having to experience suffering.

Allah only makes those who disbelieve in him suffer. theres only one purpose of life and that is to worship Allah. Enjoy your life, do what you will but remember the reason you are able to do all things through him is because of him.

If god is all-loving, he would have compassion on us and want to save us from needless suffering.

God loves every single one of his creations. whether it be living or non living, he would not create something without a purpose. ie he created the hell-fire. Allah is all loving but that does not mean he has to submit to you. he sent messengers to warn his people that if they do not obey him and worship him alone than there will be an unimaginable punishment. Insha Allah, he will save you from punishment. but just as a kid disobeys his parents and doesnt listen and doesnt listen then there will be punishment. not saying the parents dont love their child but in the same aspect the parents will not submit to their childs disobedience. there is a punishment. Allah has warned us of the hell-fire. The eternal place for those who disobey.

If god is all-powerful, he has the ability to save us from needless suffering.

Insha Allah, if Allah willed to do so he would save us from suffering of any type. he could destroy the hell-fire and take every soul out of it. Yet it is not in his will. He sent a messenger to everyone, all with one message. OBEY GOD. if you cannot follow this simple command that Allah has willed then you do not serve your purpose of creation, for this is the only reason he created human-kind and the jihn. If Allah had willed there would be no pain, no suffering, no hell-fire, but Allah knows what you know not. He knows the past, the present and the future. he knows before you were even born what your fate was but hes not going to stop you from doing anything, he knows what prayers he will answer and those which he wont, because he wills what he wills and knows what you dont.

Since we needlessly suffer, he either lacks the will or the ability to save us from needless suffering.

Subbhan Allah, Allah wills what he wills. Everything happens for a reason. Theres a reason for poor people, theres a reason for extremely wealthy people, theres a reason people fall into the hangs of lust and greed and theres a reason people suffer. Allah does not "lack" the will of anything. if its not in his will, its not because theres a "lack of", its simple not willed by Allah.

If he lacks the will, he is not all-loving.

Subbhan Allah, Allah does not lack will. He is All-Loving, but with loving theres comes lessons. Allah Loves those who worship him and those who do not, but the ones who whow him more "love" and obey him will be risen to a higher state and those who disobey/disbelieve, theres a place he has made for them as well. Its not that he doesnt love you. but all he ask is that you obey. You submit yourself to Allah and testify that no other diety is worthy of worship but him. Allah does not submit to you. Anyone who thinks that just being a good person and helping poeple or what have you, will see on the Day of Judgment that this is not all Allah asked for. God is most merciful however, those who recieve the message and refuse will face the wrath of God and recieve punishment for what he has prepared there-in the hell-fire. it is what he willed. it is what he has promised just as he promised paradise for those who obey, he has prepared the hell-fire for those who disobey.

If he lacks the ability, he is not all-powerful.

No one can imagine the power of Allah. You can see or hear of the most powerful person on earth and yet all that is ONLY done through the will of Allah. Think of the most powerful creation you have seen, and imagine that Allah has created that and so much more. He created mercy. Subbhan Allah, Allah created your ability to feel, see, smell, taste, and hear. He created your emotions, the way everything in this entire universe works together. All that you can think of Allah created, he even created your ability to think, and you say Allah is not All-Powerful?

Therefore, the existence of needless suffering stands as a testament that god cannot be both all-loving and all-powerful.


Allah is both All Loving and All-Powerful. He is not a part of his creation meaning that none of his creation can ever amount to Allahs Love, Allahs Power, Allahs Mercy. Imagine, when Allah created mercy he kept 99 parts to himself and only gave us one part. Think about the most merciful person you know and imagine that is only ONE part of the many parts of the mercy of Allah. None of his creation, no one can come close to how merciful Allah is.

If god really loves us, he knows we care about the pain we are in even if it seems small to him, he would want to spare us from needless suffering, even if it is only momentary.

Allah loves everyone, even those who disobey. But Allah will punish them for what they have done. The hell-fire was created for a purpose, just as everything else, joy, pain, death, sorrow and suffering. You cant ask why did Allah create suffering and simply rule out all the others. Allah created suffering as much as he created every other emotion. All of which have a purpose. Why did All create pain? suffering? torment? maybe as a taste of what to come if you disobey him. Why did Allah create joy or happiness? maybe to let you know what it will feel like in paradise. Allah created you. He knows what makes you hurt, what brings you pain, he knows what makes you happy and brings you joy. but its up to you which one you desire. Allah knows what you know not. He knows your fate but you still have time to show him that you do not want to spend eternity in the hell-fire, burning, churning with all the others. Prove to Allah, brother, submit yourself, Testify to him that he is the only one worthy of worship. Insha Allah you will enter the Paradise that Allah has Made for you and you will be under the shade of Allah on the Day of Judgement.

Insha Allah, i hope this helped you understand how Allah is All-Powerful and All-Loving.
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Old 05-24-2010, 09:57 PM
 
433 posts, read 526,524 times
Reputation: 96
Keep in mind, we atheists do not attack any specific religion -- religions are all the same; there is no difference. We may use a specific religion to make a point from time to time.
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:25 PM
 
433 posts, read 526,524 times
Reputation: 96
Often, when one sees a painting, the trouble is not to identify a painter but identifying which painter.

On something as big as universe, the job of identifying its "painter" is no easy task -- that's why there is science (a human name for their work of exploration).

As far as Allah did it, the name "Allah" sounds even alien to me. If you tell me "Allah did this, you are not even aware of it.", what immediately running through my mind is "this person found a creator, his idea of his name is 'Allah'. I suppose I can name something else with a better name."
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Old 05-24-2010, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
4,144 posts, read 5,108,084 times
Reputation: 2539
Quote:
If god is all-powerful, then all suffering is needless, because he could accomplish whatever purpose suffering serves without our actually having to experience suffering.

Allah only makes those who disbelieve in him suffer.


This is false. Muslims suffer just as much as non muslims.

Quote:
theres only one purpose of life and that is to worship Allah. Enjoy your life, do what you will but remember the reason you are able to do all things through him is because of him.
This is rather sanctimonious. Mental slavery isn't my purpose in life.


Quote:
If god is all-loving, he would have compassion on us and want to save us from needless suffering.

God loves every single one of his creations. whether it be living or non living, he would not create something without a purpose. ie he created the hell-fire. Allah is all loving but that does not mean he has to submit to you. he sent messengers to warn his people that if they do not obey him and worship him alone than there will be an unimaginable punishment. Insha Allah, he will save you from punishment. but just as a kid disobeys his parents and doesnt listen and doesnt listen then there will be punishment. not saying the parents dont love their child but in the same aspect the parents will not submit to their childs disobedience. there is a punishment. Allah has warned us of the hell-fire. The eternal place for those who disobey.


Sending someone to burn isn't the act of love, it's one of megalomaniacal sadism.

Quote:
If god is all-powerful, he has the ability to save us from needless suffering.

Insha Allah, if Allah willed to do so he would save us from suffering of any type. he could destroy the hell-fire and take every soul out of it. Yet it is not in his will. He sent a messenger to everyone, all with one message. OBEY GOD. if you cannot follow this simple command that Allah has willed then you do not serve your purpose of creation, for this is the only reason he created human-kind and the jihn. If Allah had willed there would be no pain, no suffering, no hell-fire, but Allah knows what you know not. He knows the past, the present and the future. he knows before you were even born what your fate was but hes not going to stop you from doing anything, he knows what prayers he will answer and those which he wont, because he wills what he wills and knows what you dont.


More arrogance. There isn't one single purpose in life. Someone can get purpose from a plethora of things.

Quote:
Since we needlessly suffer, he either lacks the will or the ability to save us from needless suffering.

Subbhan Allah, Allah wills what he wills. Everything happens for a reason. Theres a reason for poor people, theres a reason for extremely wealthy people, theres a reason people fall into the hangs of lust and greed and theres a reason people suffer. Allah does not "lack" the will of anything. if its not in his will, its not because theres a "lack of", its simple not willed by Allah.
Value judgements. Not everything happens for a reason.

Quote:
If he lacks the will, he is not all-loving.

Subbhan Allah, Allah does not lack will. He is All-Loving, but with loving theres comes lessons. Allah Loves those who worship him and those who do not, but the ones who whow him more "love" and obey him will be risen to a higher state and those who disobey/disbelieve, theres a place he has made for them as well. Its not that he doesnt love you. but all he ask is that you obey. You submit yourself to Allah and testify that no other diety is worthy of worship but him. Allah does not submit to you. Anyone who thinks that just being a good person and helping poeple or what have you, will see on the Day of Judgment that this is not all Allah asked for. God is most merciful however, those who recieve the message and refuse will face the wrath of God and recieve punishment for what he has prepared there-in the hell-fire. it is what he willed. it is what he has promised just as he promised paradise for those who obey, he has prepared the hell-fire for those who disobey.


Someone who loves you doesn't send you to burn for eternity just because you didn't believe in them.

Quote:
If he lacks the ability, he is not all-powerful.

No one can imagine the power of Allah. You can see or hear of the most powerful person on earth and yet all that is ONLY done through the will of Allah. Think of the most powerful creation you have seen, and imagine that Allah has created that and so much more. He created mercy. Subbhan Allah, Allah created your ability to feel, see, smell, taste, and hear. He created your emotions, the way everything in this entire universe works together. All that you can think of Allah created, he even created your ability to think, and you say Allah is not All-Powerful?


Allah didn't create anything.


Quote:

Therefore, the existence of needless suffering stands as a testament that god cannot be both all-loving and all-powerful.

Allah is both All Loving and All-Powerful. He is not a part of his creation meaning that none of his creation can ever amount to Allahs Love, Allahs Power, Allahs Mercy. Imagine, when Allah created mercy he kept 99 parts to himself and only gave us one part. Think about the most merciful person you know and imagine that is only ONE part of the many parts of the mercy of Allah. None of his creation, no one can come close to how merciful Allah is.
If Allah was about love and mercy he wouldn't send unbelievers to burn.

Quote:
If god really loves us, he knows we care about the pain we are in even if it seems small to him, he would want to spare us from needless suffering, even if it is only momentary.

Allah loves everyone, even those who disobey. But Allah will punish them for what they have done. The hell-fire was created for a purpose, just as everything else, joy, pain, death, sorrow and suffering. You cant ask why did Allah create suffering and simply rule out all the others. Allah created suffering as much as he created every other emotion. All of which have a purpose. Why did All create pain? suffering? torment? maybe as a taste of what to come if you disobey him. Why did Allah create joy or happiness? maybe to let you know what it will feel like in paradise. Allah created you. He knows what makes you hurt, what brings you pain, he knows what makes you happy and brings you joy. but its up to you which one you desire. Allah knows what you know not. He knows your fate but you still have time to show him that you do not want to spend eternity in the hell-fire, burning, churning with all the others. Prove to Allah, brother, submit yourself, Testify to him that he is the only one worthy of worship. Insha Allah you will enter the Paradise that Allah has Made for you and you will be under the shade of Allah on the Day of Judgement.
If Allah loved everyone he wouldn't send disbelievers to hell. I don't need to prove anything to your imaginary friend.

Quote:
Insha Allah, i hope this helped you understand how Allah is All-Powerful and All-Loving.
It helped confirm what I already knew-islam is false.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:30 PM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,732,488 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
Subbhan Allah, your making statements that are obviously untrue. Never once did i say i can imagine the power of Allah. No one can as i said before. You can only get an idea from what he has revealed to you, but no one can even begin to imagine his true power.

The picture is ridiculous, just because you dont believe what has been revealed does not make it untrue.

We can take a "baseball" and show it to you just as i can show you the world and anything in the universe as proof that Allah created it. just because you cannot see the creator does not mean that he does not exist. just as you see a painting in a store or an art gallery or in a restraunt, but you do not see the artist standing next to it does not mean that what he has created/painted does not exist. to say that about Allah is foolish. Obviously you see the painting, but you do not see the artist, does that mean the painting does not exist? you see Allahs creation and you say Allah does not exist?
You made the claim that allah is all powerful, the contradicted it with no one can no that..
The baseball isn't the universe, it is your claim
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:02 AM
 
397 posts, read 534,626 times
Reputation: 54
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gplex View Post
You made the claim that allah is all powerful, the contradicted it with no one can no that..
The baseball isn't the universe, it is your claim
Allah is not a person and is outside of his creation, no contradiction
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Old 05-25-2010, 12:09 AM
 
4,047 posts, read 4,486,043 times
Reputation: 1326
All-loving means one would end suffering if at all possible. All-powerful means it is possible. The fact that your "Allah" doesn't end suffering, and allegedly even went so far as to create suffering, means he is either not all-loving, not all-powerful or neither. There's no way around it.
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Old 05-25-2010, 04:12 AM
 
Location: NZ Wellington
2,782 posts, read 3,732,488 times
Reputation: 591
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
Allah is not a person and is outside of his creation, no contradiction
silly sukrill...
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
No one can imagine the power of Allah.
You claim no one can imagine allah power..
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
Allah is both All Loving and All-Powerful.
Then you just did it
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Old 05-25-2010, 05:09 AM
 
39,066 posts, read 10,837,135 times
Reputation: 5085
Sukrill wrote:

'Allah only makes those who disbelieve in him suffer.' and:
'God loves every single one of his creations. whether it be living or non living,'

The problem of Evil stated with brutal clarity.

One thing that charms me about the Muslim apologists here - it is not in the least bit hard to disbelieve them.
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Old 05-25-2010, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Metromess
11,798 posts, read 21,978,743 times
Reputation: 5074
Quote:
Originally Posted by sukrill View Post
Allah is not a person and is outside of his creation, no contradiction
So Allah's being "outside of his creation" means that he has no power to affect it? Then none of us have anything to worry about.

What a silly statement indeed. He created it but cannot interact with it?
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