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Old 03-27-2013, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
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I'm not trying to pick a fight! According to the 2010 Census, Jackson was 79.4 percent black. Just to get an idea how much the city has changed, drive along Robinson Road in West Jackson. I think every church you see was built for a white congregation.

I was surprised to learn Presidential Hills was a white subdivision.

Jackson

As a Catholic, I'd like to point out that no Catholic Church that had historically white congregations has closed in Jackson, despite the despite the fact that a lot of their parishoners have moved out of the city.
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Old 03-29-2013, 01:40 PM
 
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What is your point, then? I'm not trying to pick a fight, either. Are you merely noting that the city has a greater percentage of people of color than it used to? I don't think anyone is going to argue against census data.

I don't think any of the Episcopal churches have closed there, either.


By the way, anecdotally, it seems to me we've had quite a bit of black flight out of Jackson as well.
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Old 03-29-2013, 10:32 PM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
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I'd heard it was built for Blacks. So I googled around and found this: Home In The Prez: All The President's Residents | Jackson Free Press | Jackson, MS Notice the sentence, "Presidential Hills is the only residential neighborhood created for blacks before desegregation was instituted..." I don't think that's really true. It may, however, have been the first neighborhood of fine brick all-electric dream homes built for Blacks, though.
I think the person who told you Presidential Hills had started out white was confused. They were probably thinking about the estate area off Hanging Moss Road, which started off as a rather elite white neighborhood, but quickly became an elite Black neighborhood. That transition had completed by the time we got our first "real" jobs, in Jackson, in the latter half of the Eighties. Some really lovely estates there, back then. Gorgeous interiors. Imbragulio and some of the other trend-setting designers were doing some great work in those homes. I remember seeing a lot of nice photos, and going to a couple of gatherings out there. A sizable portion of the Black aristocracy was living in the Hanging Moss area, at the time. I wonder what it's like, today.

But back to Presidential Hills (The fact that there are streets named for Kennedy and Johnson are enough to tell you that whites were definitely not the target demographic). Here's a sample of the local flavor: How we do it in Presidential Hills Jackson, MS - YouTube and Presidential Hills Easter 2012.mov - YouTube These are really quite wholesome, particularly when compared to the Biloxi Spring Break videos on YouTube.
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Old 03-30-2013, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Jersey
2,162 posts, read 3,235,162 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mouldy Old Schmo View Post
As a Catholic, I'd like to point out that no Catholic Church that had historically white congregations has closed in Jackson, despite the despite the fact that a lot of their parishoners have moved out of the city.
I've always been of the impression that Catholic churches weren't racially segregated in the manner that Protestant churches were. There were/are churches that perhaps cater(ed) more specifically to certain ethnic groups(and in many ways race in America is an ethnic phenomenon); but as far as I'm aware, there aren't any ethnic/racial prohibitions on anyone from attending Mass or taking part in parish life. Was there segregation in Southern Catholic? If so, was it formal or informal?

Last edited by TylerJAX; 03-30-2013 at 10:17 AM..
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Old 03-30-2013, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Jersey
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
I've always been of the impression that Catholic churches weren't racially segregated in the manner that Protestant churches were. There were/are churches that perhaps cater(ed) more specifically to certain ethnic groups(and in many ways race in America is an ethnic phenomenon); but as far as I'm aware, there aren't any ethnic/racial prohibitions on anyone from attending Mass or taking part in parish life. Was there segregation in Southern Catholic? If so, was it formal or informal?
2nd to last sentence should read "Southern Catholic churches." I probably could drop "Southern" as well since I'm not entirely sure if it occurred or not in Catholic churches outside of the American South as well.
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
8,609 posts, read 8,611,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TylerJAX View Post
I've always been of the impression that Catholic churches weren't racially segregated in the manner that Protestant churches were. There were/are churches that perhaps cater(ed) more specifically to certain ethnic groups(and in many ways race in America is an ethnic phenomenon); but as far as I'm aware, there aren't any ethnic/racial prohibitions on anyone from attending Mass or taking part in parish life. Was there segregation in Southern Catholic? If so, was it formal or informal?

The Catholic hierarchy in the South walked a fine line. They did not advocate desegregation when it was the law of the South, but they did support desegregation when push came to shove from the Courts. They did evangelize and educate the black community, typically by building Catholic churches and schools for blacks. Although enrollment was never large, these schools were typically the best in their communities for blacks. The teachers were usually white nuns and priests from the North, the same as it was for students in white Catholic schools. School integration in the 1960s and 1970s, however, coincided with a decline in the number of religious vocations, meaning fewer priests and nuns available to teach. This meant paying lay teachers, who required higher salaries. For these reasons, many of these black Catholic schools closed their doors over the last several decades. During the days of legal segregation, when there weren't enough black Catholics in an area to justify a separate parish, the few black Catholics could attend the local white Catholic Church, but had to sit in the back.

Last year, I borrowed this book through interlibrary loan from the public library. It is a great read about Mississippi's oldest Catholic Church and school for the black community:

Black And Catholic in the Jim Crow South: The Stuff That Makes Community: Danny Duncan Collum: 9780809143719: Amazon.com: Books

Last edited by Mouldy Old Schmo; 04-01-2013 at 09:37 AM..
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Old 04-01-2013, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Somewhere flat in Mississippi
8,609 posts, read 8,611,763 times
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A few weeks ago, I asked my priest what Jackson Catholic parish he and his family lived in after moving from Kentucky. He told me "Holy Family". I asked him "Isn't that a black Catholic Church"? It turned out I had it confused with Holy Ghost Parish, which is a historically black Catholic Church located here:

Holy Ghost Parish, Jackson, Mississippi - Google Maps


Holy Family, which is where my priest and his family attended, is located here:

Holy Ghost Parish, Jackson, Mississippi - Google Maps

According to Holy Family's website, the church was founded in the late 1950s. I did some research and discovered the neighborhood where the parish is located has been majority-black for at least two decades.

One result of white flight is the huge loss of a tax base, since the residents who replace them in the neighborhood often have lower incomes.
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Old 04-02-2013, 06:07 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,246 posts, read 1,712,600 times
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Maybe the Jackson Free Press should check their facts. They seem to have published an article saying that Presidential Hills was built exclusively for blacks (which is what I have always heard) and then in this White Flight (which should really be anyone with any sense and the capability flight) article they say that White Flight left it a black community in 1970. I don't know because I wasn't born until 1978, so can someone with actual experience shed some light on this matter. As for Presidential Hills, I feel sorry for the good, hard working citizens trying to live there because every night the violence of the previous night is on the news having happened there. I would honestly be scared to death to even drive by Presidential Hills on Hwy 80.
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:11 PM
 
Location: North Jackson
1,867 posts, read 2,973,277 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Madeline2121 View Post
I would honestly be scared to death to even drive by Presidential Hills on Hwy 80.
If you're on Hwy 80 and you go by Presidential Hills, you should be scared. Given that Presidential Hills is way north on Hwy 49 between I220 and the Natchez Trace.

Are you sure you're even talking about "Presidential Hills?"
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Old 04-02-2013, 07:23 PM
 
Location: Mississippi
1,246 posts, read 1,712,600 times
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I was talking about Hwy 49. My mistake.
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