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Old 02-15-2010, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jacksonian View Post
I happen to agree with Poptones on this one. I'm not familiar with the NE Jackson scene, but I am involved with Downtown and Fondren activities/events, and I can say that intense religious discussion is a rarity from my experience. If there is any place in Mississippi that is not insecure, it's Fondren. And Downtown is where many of the Madison churchgoers get their hangovers from - apparently holy doughnuts and coffee have some sort of curing powers.

Recently, I was dining at one of Madison's lovely chain restaurants (in-laws invited us and we couldn't say no) for lunch on a Sunday and they were piping in church music over the loud speakers while the Nascar race was on. I supposes the sound of "glory, glory, glory" is the accepted form of audio to wash out the redneck dialect.
My sympathies, Jacksonian. That must have been a nightmarish meal. And playing churchey music with nascar going on TV would be considered a sacrilege in any place where people consider. But people in that part of the world don't do a lot of considering, or thinking....

And actually, I agree with you and Poptones about the current situation. Fondren is cool...alternative....hip.... As it would be, with most of the few intelligent young people in Mississippi being schooled, nearby (the giant Medical Center).

And really, the evil, poisonous, holy-rolling (white) people who made Jackson so awful have mostly moved to Madison and Rankin counties, within the last decade. When they started moving in around us, particularly the wealthy 'old Jackson families', we started muttering things about having moved to Madison to get away from those holy-rolling hypocrite con-artists....and here they were following us.

It was just before my time, but I've heard about how Belhaven was cool in the seventies. Then, the top Greeks at Ole Miss started moving, in, then the downmarket frats and suzies started moving in, then anybody who had ever gone to Ole Miss....then everybody who wanted a bit of that 'preppy' aura (apparently, 'preppy', by that time, meant you owned a polo shirt) moved in, and it was over. That's when the cool people stampeded to Madison County (to be followed by the cool-wannabes, to be followed by the plain-ol' racists, who just moved out there to get away from 'Frank'). Anyway, Madison County seems to be following that evolutionary path.

I certainly was not trying to say that everyone in Madison is (or ever was) a Norman English Episcopalian Agnostic Aristocrat. But Chapel of The Cross did serve as a nucleus for an elite community: one that is still thriving, and largely hidden. And the more Jackson people move out there, the more hidden that community will become.

The nucleus is breaking up, though. I personally know two social-climbing couples, from three rungs down the Protestant ladder, who decided they had to become Episcopalians, and had to join The Chapel of the Cross. These were not cognitive elites...not high earners... These were just plain BMW-driving Northeast Jackson rednecks on the make...looking to 'network' within a richer crowd.

Last edited by GrandviewGloria; 02-15-2010 at 04:22 PM.. Reason: typo
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:11 PM
 
106 posts, read 334,638 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
My sympathies, Jacksonian. That must have been a nightmarish meal. And playing churchey music with nascar going on TV would be considered a sacrilege in any place where people consider. But people in that part of the world don't do a lot of considering, or thinking....

And actually, I agree with you and Poptones about the current situation. Fondren is cool...alternative....hip.... As it would be, with most of the few intelligent young people in Mississippi being schooled, nearby (the giant Medical Center).

And really, the evil, poisonous, holy-rolling (white) people who made Jackson so awful have mostly moved to Madison and Rankin counties, within the last decade. When they started moving in around us, particularly the wealthy 'old Jackson families', we started muttering things about having moved to Madison to get away from those holy-rolling hypocrite con-artists....and here they were following us.

It was just before my time, but I've heard about how Belhaven was cool in the seventies. Then, the top Greeks at Ole Miss started moving, in, then the downmarket frats and suzies started moving in, then anybody who had ever gone to Ole Miss....then everybody who wanted a bit of that 'preppy' aura (apparently, 'preppy', by that time, meant you owned a polo shirt) moved in, and it was over. That's when the cool people stampeded to Madison County (to be followed by the cool-wannabes, to be followed by the plain-ol' racists, who just moved out there to get away from 'Frank'). Anyway, Madison County seems to be following that evolutionary path.

I certainly was not trying to say that everyone in Madison is (or ever was) a Norman English Episcopalian Agnostic Aristocrat. But Chapel of The Cross did serve as a nucleus for an elite community: one that is still thriving, and largely hidden. And the more Jackson people move out there, the more hidden that community will become.

The nucleus is breaking up, though. I personally know two social-climbing couples, from three rungs down the Protestant ladder, who decided they had to become Episcopalians, and had to join The Chapel of the Cross. These were not cognitive elites...not high earners... These were just plain BMW-driving Northeast Jackson rednecks on the make...looking to 'network' within a richer crowd.
GrandviewGloria your opinion is very thought provoking and makes me wonder as to why the Jackson metro area holds some of its values and customs. Why is it that in a sense it "seems" that everything is about status quo? I just don't understand why someone would feel the need to 'network' within a richer crowd? Maybe if some of these select elite communites would learn to be more forward thinking it could prehaps rub off on others and the city could move towards being more progressive?

Well thats all I have to say. I enjoyed reading your post BTW.
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Old 02-15-2010, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Jackson, MS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrandviewGloria View Post
....then everybody who wanted a bit of that 'preppy' aura (apparently, 'preppy', by that time, meant you owned a polo shirt)
I remember when that was true too.

Belhaven has a good mix of college students, young professionals, families and retirees now. We looked at several houses there but I'm not big on living in historical districts where you have to get work approved before you can actually do the work to your house. I understand that it provides some form of security of property values, but if I wanted to deal with HOA I would have moved out to the burbs. I'm very glad that Fondren turned down the offer of becoming an historical district. That's just one of the things that keeps Fondren unrestricted. I still like Belhaven, especially for rental properties, but I don't know if I would buy there.
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Old 02-15-2010, 08:52 PM
 
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Grandview, I will give you credit. Your ramblings are a little, well, off....but in a twisted, mildly entertaining kind of way. That said, let me correct you on one small thing. Chapel of the Cross is hardly elite. Have you not heard of St. Andrew's and St. James?
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Old 02-15-2010, 09:30 PM
 
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Politics is politics. Pretending you are above it is just another elitist politic.
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Old 02-16-2010, 12:38 AM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brickpatio View Post
Grandview, I will give you credit. Your ramblings are a little, well, off....but in a twisted, mildly entertaining kind of way. That said, let me correct you on one small thing. Chapel of the Cross is hardly elite. Have you not heard of St. Andrew's and St. James?
My impression (and again, I will stress that I am speaking strictly as an outsider/onlooker) is that The Cathedral of St. Andrew is for typical Jackson people: rich, maybe...but of the Baton-twirling, Beauty Queen variety of 'elite'. While they may have all the little boxes checked off: Debutante, check; Chi Omega, check; Ivy League college, check; house in Maine, check; castle in Scotland, check; a whole Williamsburg-style mansion full of Williamsburg-licensed Mahogany & pewter & Toile, check....they're not the genuine article.

Chapel of the Cross has tended to attract a more tweedy, erudite crowd, whose pedigrees go back to The Domesday Book, and beyond: people from other parts of the state, who find Jackson people insufferable. But, as I"ve said, the wannabes have identified 'The Chapel' as the place to be, and they have crashed the gates. I think they think they can pass as tweedy intellectuals more easily than they can pass among the Helmet-haired, plastic surgery enhanced, go-getters, wearing the important jewelry, at The Cathedral (after all, that takes serious bucks). So the crowd, today, may not be what it was, twenty years ago, when the ball got rolling.

Funny how all of this is now beyond irrelevant to me: my access to the world expands almost as fast as my expanding knowledge of it. At one point, when I was learning about how Society worked, I thought Jackson would be my world. Now, it's just a distant place and time... somewhere on the other side of the continent. It's now no more real to me than the nightmares I have about waking my Grandmother up from her nightmares.
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Old 02-16-2010, 03:27 AM
 
Location: Lake Oswego, Manhattan, Aspen
3,147 posts, read 3,999,893 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jxndean View Post
GrandviewGloria your opinion is very thought provoking and makes me wonder as to why the Jackson metro area holds some of its values and customs. Why is it that in a sense it "seems" that everything is about status quo? I just don't understand why someone would feel the need to 'network' within a richer crowd? Maybe if some of these select elite communites would learn to be more forward thinking it could prehaps rub off on others and the city could move towards being more progressive?

Well thats all I have to say. I enjoyed reading your post BTW.
Thank you, jxndean!

You are not the first person (or the second, or even the ten-thousandth) who has noted or puzzled over Jackson's death-embrace with the status quo. We heard people debating it when we first moved, fresh from college, to The Big City, and we were joking about it at my bon-voyage, just minutes before I pointed my Cayenne toward the highway, and a new life here in The West.

So there are lots of theories. But they're just theories. And I suspect no single-cause theory will suffice. But I'll throw out a few:

The carpetbagger-descended ersatz aristocrats forming
'Old Jackson' 'Society'. When people are unsure of their 'ownership' of a culture, they tend to become rule-followers, rather than innovators.

The Celtic 'Snake Brain' (I have scans running right this minute, and so can't do a google-check, but I think a quick google will describe this primitive brain center...which is more dominant in some ethnic groups than in others...it affects conformist behavior, which would cause certain groups to enforce the Status Quo....OK, just checked it, and the proper word is REPTILIAN BRAIN). I suspect that Mississippi is More Celtic than the rest of the South, and the South is the most Celtic part of America. While Jackson's 'Old Families' seem to descend from Marseilles, Palermo, Salonica, Beirut, Berlin and Odessa, the rank-and-file white Jacksonian is of mostly Celtic descent.

The IQ deficit. I recently discovered Steve Sailer's state-by-state IQ chart. Guess who's at the absolute bottom? In a place where many or most people are too stupid to learn, or even to be adequately trained, even the smart people tend to become cynical, give up, and embrace the status quo. It's that, or go crazy. And I think that the IQ Deficit exacerbates Mississippi's Brain Drain. That's certainly the root cause of my extended family's flight from the state (beginning in 1959, and ending with me, the last one out), and It's why our best friends just sold their Madison home, and followed us out here.

I'm sure you've noticed that the smart people in the area seem very guarded and emotionally-damaged. It's because of the friction they have had, all their lives, with the cognitively sub-par majority there.



About networking, I should confess to having done a lot of that, myself. Nothing wrong with it, as long as your motives are acceptable, and you are not violating your personal integrity (My personal integrity would, however, prevent me from using G--'s house as a venue for schmoozing).

Someone would want to network among a richer crowd, if he were a professional looking for high-profile clients; or if she sold tech systems; or if she were a caterer; or if he were a developer/con-artist, looking for 'investors'.

The particular elite community I was describing at Chapel of the Cross IS one of the progressive ones. Those people are seriously advanced. I'm totally in awe of what they have going on. But their ability to share what they are doing is hampered by the ridicule and sarcasm the locals heap upon anyone local, who violates the Status Quo. That's why advanced folks in those parts tend to hide out on their wooded estates. It's interesting to note, though, that Big-Media-supported fads and innovations, coming from out there in... wherever, seem to be accepted as arbiters of The Status Quo.

And again, the portion of Central Mississippi's population that most needs to be led toward progressiveness is probably incapable of being sustainably enlightened or educated. They're more apt to listen to Miss Cleo the Psychic, or some TV preacher, than some tweedy intellectual from a frumpy country church. All sorts of affluent communities and organizations in the Jackson Metro DO continually pour effort into improving the lives of the less fortunate....from Habitat Houses to battered women's shelters. And they do an enormous amount of good. But the left end of the Bell Curve is generating problems faster than the affluent few can fix them.

Thanks, again, for your kind comments.
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Old 02-16-2010, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Jackson, MS
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Originally Posted by pherrington View Post
Madison and Rankin Counties are absolutely the best areas to live in the Jackson Ms area.
I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree on this one.
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Old 02-16-2010, 09:49 PM
 
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This narrative is 90% fantasy. I mean honestly, I would hope it's obvious to people actually looking for helpful facts and information.
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Old 02-16-2010, 11:43 PM
 
783 posts, read 1,889,783 times
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I don't think someone looking to move into an area should be hoping to glean much insight from someone who seems to hate absolutely everything about the place. It's not just logic that's missing from much of this thread, it's objectivity.

I wouldn't live in Jackson simply because I'm so happy with Winona. If I find myself in need of a 9-5 wage again that will have to change because there's way more of a market down there than here. OTOH, Memphis is just 90 minutes away and the taxes seem to be waaayyyy lower.
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