Let's Be for real "Historic Springfield" (Jacksonville, Mayo: bank owned, middle-class)
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I was born & raised in Jacksonville and have lived in every part of Jacksonville.
I come across the topics on people moving from out of state and inquiring on Historic Springfield and can only shake my head...
Some of the responses I see are like "are they really trying to set them up like this?"
If I am looking into moving to a city with my kids, I would like to know the whole truth..not just from folks that have no previous knowledge of the neighborhood who have just decided to venture out of their comfort zones to come to the Eastside and set up camp in the past few years.
Though many try to distinguish the area as some multi-million dollar renovation that made Springfield do a complete 360, the real Jacksonville residents know all to well that this is not the whole truth.
Yes, many renovations, businesses opening up and roads being repaved does make "parts" of the area look really nice.
In the past 10 years, there have been lots of changes, but only for certain areas. This area was a haven for drugs, prostitution, robberies, murders, etc. And alot of these crimes still remain to happen in the "general area". Locals notice newcomers and in turn adapt to how to deal with them. If you are a naive person and are not "expecting" someone to take advantage of you. You will be taken advantage of. You don't see as much of these issues because there are more officers that have come into the area, some do live there as well, there was a time when police presence was if it all, barely a threat. There was no respect for the police. And again, this is in the past 10 years.
So yes, there have been dramatic changes even I am proud of and can notice, but that doesnt hide my previous and present knowledge of the area. Experienced personally.
I pretty much agree with you not only in terms of "truth in advertising" about Springfield - but "truth in advertising" about all parts of the metro area. We all know that no area here is perfect - and I think when we write messages - we should be honest about both the good things and the bad things. If I had to come up with a phrase describing a person who might enjoy living in Springfield - it would be "urban pioneer". But that "urban pioneer" should still want to stay on top of community things like the ash lawsuit - crime - possible changes in the magnet school system - building code/historic overlay district renovation issues - etc. Robyn
- SPR is only a 1x1 sq mile district, and the entire area has been touched, some more than others. This 1x1 sq mile district is the only neighborhood in discussion, not the other areas which are very different.
- Urban Pioneers were 15-10 years ago. Your average, typical middle class families are moving in now, in the past 4 years especially. There is no "pioneering" left, besides on the boundary lines.
Almost countless, literally, other references and examples if you'd like them.
The neighborhood has typical issues than any non-gated, "city" neighborhood has. But nothing unsual.
Jax Questions, in another recent post, the thread I suggested this topic was better suited in, referneced that 30% of the Mayor's office leadership lives here, including the 2nd in command after Mayor Peyton. Think that tells you all you need to know.
Anyways, read what's out there and if you want more, you know i'm a bottomless pit of information, and you can decide for yourself.
- BTW, Robyn, the "ash" issue (where COJ was attempting to screw over peoperty owners) has been resolved. Those other topics you mentioned have different discussions, none negative or alarming. So please do keep informed about them, if you wish.
Again, wish this would have been in the existing thread(s). Perhaps a Mod can move it?
DuvalLuvah has lived here all of his/her life. I think he/she is entitled to start any thread he/she cares to. How long have you been here?
FWIW - I can find no evidence that Lisa Rinaman and her husband own a house anywhere in Jacksonville (nothing in the property records). Perhaps they are renters?
As for the ash issue - if you go to sell your house - and there's a realtor questionnaire asking whether your property has ever been tagged - what are you going to write down? The tag isn't evidence of ash per se - only that there may be a question about it.
I think DuvalLuvah's assessment was pretty honest. Springfield is a lot better than it used to be. But it still has issues that should be discussed honestly. Any area where the recent median sales price is somewhere in the neighborhood of $50k (including multi-family places) has issues IMO.
What are the "other" areas you think are different? The parts of Springfield and other neighborhoods around it that don't look like your pictures? And even if you had the ability to define Springfield the way you want (and if my aunt had ***** she'd be my uncle) - what you're basically saying is you have a very small somewhat nice community surrounded by communities you don't think are so nice.
And there are issues that are unusual. Especially crime. Draw circles around the metro area. And you won't in general see as many robberies in nicer areas. You know what robbery is in Florida? It's this:
The crime of Robbery, also referred to as Strong Arm Robbery, is defined as:
The intentional and unlawful taking of money or property from another person;
Through the use of force, violence, assault, or threat.
I don't get real bent out by things like vandalism - but robbery - that's a biggie in my book. A totally in your face kind of crime. So is residential burglary (and I don't know how the JSO classifies a "residential burglary" when someone is in the house - it's technically a robbery - but could be classified as a burglary). I'm also very troubled by assaults and batteries. IOW - crimes against people - not only property.
And then there's arson. There was that goofus on the Springfield forum who posted about a purported arson as an April Fool's Joke. And people were honestly scared it might have been their house. Most people in JAX wouldn't have been scared by that post.
I think people like DuvalLuvah - me - and others here - would be a lot more sympathetic and perhaps even positive if boosters of certain areas here - including you - were simply willing to admit that their areas of choice had a few warts. Robyn
Completely agree. I don't doubt that Springfield is a nice place to live for certain people, but if a person comes on here saying that their biggest concerns are living in a neighborhood where kids can ride their bike down the street, Springfield is NOT the first place that comes to mind. I have seen Springfield residents on here say, "Well crime is everywhere and you just have to be aware and don't be out after dark..." or something to that effect. I live in a neighborhood where I can walk my dog, alone, late at night and not be worried about running into a drug deal going on outside my house.
Maybe Springfield is a good place for people whose top concern is a beautiful historic home or convenience to downtown, but it isn't the best option for everyone...
- SPR is only a 1x1 sq mile district, and the entire area has been touched, some more than others. This 1x1 sq mile district is the only neighborhood in discussion, not the other areas which are very different.
- Urban Pioneers were 15-10 years ago. Your average, typical middle class families are moving in now, in the past 4 years especially. There is no "pioneering" left, besides on the boundary lines.
Almost countless, literally, other references and examples if you'd like them.
The neighborhood has typical issues than any non-gated, "city" neighborhood has. But nothing unsual.
Jax Questions, in another recent post, the thread I suggested this topic was better suited in, referneced that 30% of the Mayor's office leadership lives here, including the 2nd in command after Mayor Peyton. Think that tells you all you need to know.
Anyways, read what's out there and if you want more, you know i'm a bottomless pit of information, and you can decide for yourself.
- BTW, Robyn, the "ash" issue (where COJ was attempting to screw over peoperty owners) has been resolved. Those other topics you mentioned have different discussions, none negative or alarming. So please do keep informed about them, if you wish.
Again, wish this would have been in the existing thread(s). Perhaps a Mod can move it?
funny how the "most informed" are only finding their info online and in their very immediate area..
Thanks Robin..being a Duval County Native..I don't refer to online stories and incomplete "stats" when I have been here, I have lived, and am living it.. furthermore, I will be honest with anyone about my city, good or bad.
I think he/she is entitled to start any thread he/she cares to.
For the sake of others. Not everyone likes to obssess over the same thing again, and again, starting new threads about the same topic. Including myself.
I can find no evidence that Lisa Rinaman and her husband own a house anywhere in Jacksonville (nothing in the property records). Perhaps they are renters?
Amazing
If you go to sell your house - and there's a realtor questionnaire asking whether your property has ever been tagged - what are you going to write down?
No
I think DuvalLuvah's assessment was pretty honest. Springfield is a lot better than it used to be. But it still has issues that should be discussed honestly.
I agree. That's all i've ever done. I've never stated anything untrue or inaccurate. Ever. Never. Ever.
Any area where the recent median sales price is somewhere in the neighborhood of $50k (including multi-family places) has issues IMO.
As you've been told before, it's heavily skewed b/c there are a number sold for $20k and such that need 100k+ of renovations. Nice houses tha are not a shortsale or bank owned sell for much more ($175-300K).
What are the "other" areas you think are different?
Some neighborhoods that lay near SPR are different, ie never revitalized, restored, and not places to hang out.
The parts of Springfield and other neighborhoods around it that don't look like your pictures?
Pictures? I don't hang out in bad neighborhoods and I don't take photos of them.
And even if you had the ability to define Springfield the way you want (and if my aunt had ***** she'd be my uncle) -
The boundaries are extremely clear and not arbitrary, what I want has zero to do with it.
what you're basically saying is you have a very small somewhat nice community surrounded by communities you don't think are so nice.
Partially, yes, partially no. Like Avondale, one of the nicest neighborhoods in the entire city, which sits next to a rather awful neighborhood. Or the Beaches, whic have nice areas nex to much roughe ones.
And there are issues that are unusual. Especially crime. Draw circles around the metro area. And you won't in general see as many robberies in nicer areas.
The metro area includes some of the nicest, most desirable neighborhoods in the city, actually. Crime is not unsual compared to any other typical, city neighbrohood, as I stated. City neighborhoods are generally more dense (thus more people, less driving, more personal interaction, more opprotunity for a conflict). Compared to a suburban neighborhood (which is much less dense, less personal interaction, more drivng, less opprotunity for a conflcit) general crime level, will of course be less. This is true for any city neighborhood anywhere. However, since serious crimes are pretty darn low in the specific area you have chosen to highlight (SPR), and continue to drop each year, it's generally not a issue. Otherwise it wouldn't have recieved so much acclaim, notarity, accolades, and wouldn't be attracting people & families from the Beaches, Julington Creek, San Marco, Mandarin, etc.
You know what robbery is in Florida? It's this:
The crime of Robbery, also referred to as Strong Arm Robbery, is defined as:
The intentional and unlawful taking of money or property from another person;
Through the use of force, violence, assault, or threat.
I don't get real bent out by things like vandalism - but robbery - that's a biggie in my book. A totally in your face kind of crime. So is residential burglary (and I don't know how the JSO classifies a "residential burglary" when someone is in the house - it's technically a robbery - but could be classified as a burglary). I'm also very troubled by assaults and batteries. IOW - crimes against people - not only property.
As you should be. Thankfully, as in most city neighbrohoods, these incidents are insignificant to your typical, middle-class homeowner b/c they involved street people. It's rarely seen or heard by your average joe middle-class homeowner, otherwise, again, noone would be paying hundreds of thousands of dollars to live here. And the many, many rather well off people and families that do live here would be moving out.
And then there's arson. There was that goofus on the Springfield forum who posted about a purported arson as an April Fool's Joke. And people were honestly scared it might have been their house. Most people in JAX wouldn't have been scared by that post.
On the boundary, which is still "urban pioneering", a person owns/owned several derilict propeties that were sucpiciously catching fire. Three, I think. We suspect he wanted to get rid of the houses so he wouldn't have to maintain them or pay fines. A suspect was apprehended, and that was the end of that.
I think people like DuvalLuvah - me - and others here - would be a lot more sympathetic and perhaps even positive if boosters of certain areas here - including you - were simply willing to admit that their areas of choice had a few warts.
Well of course they do. Every ares has good and bad and trade offs. I've never said anything different. When asked, I've always said that it's a neighborhood that obviously hasn't hit a ceiling yet (which is also a major reason so many people are moving in and/or buying property to rent - good investment) and still has issues, but that they are now relatively minor. If someone asks what those issues migh be, I would happily tell them. As you can see on www.myspringfield.org, everything gets discussed and is free for anyone to see.
I don't doubt that Springfield is a nice place to live for certain people, but if a person comes on here saying that their biggest concerns are living in a neighborhood where kids can ride their bike down the street, Springfield is NOT the first place that comes to mind.
Nor would it be for me, and I've never said anything similar. Of course, kids do every day without cause for concern, but it woudn't the the first place that comes to mind, no.
I have seen Springfield residents on here say, "Well crime is everywhere and you just have to be aware and don't be out after dark..." or something to that effect. I live in a neighborhood where I can walk my dog, alone, late at night and not be worried about running into a drug deal going on outside my house.
I've never seen anyone type anything about not being out after dark, ever. And I would know. Perhaps you can find that for me to correct me. Residents walk thier dogs, ride bikes, walk to a local cafe or bar all the time. Every night.
Maybe Springfield is a good place for people whose top concern is a beautiful historic home or convenience to downtown, but it isn't the best option for everyone.
Nothing is for everyone, of course, and I've never said anything different. Here are some good key words that indicate that someone may like it:
- near DT
- unique
- nightlife
- things to do
- young people
- good investment
- central location
- up & coming
- urban living
- diverse
- artistic
- progressive
- electic
- walkable
- bikeable
- historic
- family friendly
- dog/pet friendly
- large houses
- new construction b/t $150-350k
- active
- sense of community
- neighborly
- different
- fun
- Navy family
- affordable homes
- parks
- trendy
- opprotunity
I think he/she is entitled to start any thread he/she cares to.
For the sake of others. Not everyone likes to obssess over the same thing again, and again, starting new threads about the same topic. Including myself.
my post wouldnt go so far as an obsession sweetie..i just get aggravated when people represent something for what it is NOT.. take responsibility for your gung ho, lets go Historic Springfield, crime has been demolished and I now live in one of the greatest places in Jax attitude..it only makes you look like an idiot for those who have grown up watching and still remain in the area to see everything that still remains..
and as stated before..people that are doing wrong are by no means stupid, they have watched all the changes from their front yards and in turn have the know how to deal with new people coming into the neighborhood. They aren't gonna let you know what they are doing and in most cases are very good in keeping it discreet. They are mindful of the changes and are not so obvious these days, but u keep on painting that bright shiny pic of Springfield and hopefully some poor soul u have convinced this is the best hood ever wont be naive enough to get their effn heads bashed in because they made that turn a block too late and roll up to a bassah needing a quik fix to ask for directions...great job, no really, wonderful
Nothing is for everyone, of course, and I've never said anything different. Here are some good key words that indicate that someone may like it:
- near DT
- unique
- nightlife
- things to do
- young people
- good investment
- central location
- up & coming
- urban living
- diverse
- artistic
- progressive
- electic
- walkable
- bikeable
- historic
- family friendly
- dog/pet friendly
- large houses
- new construction b/t $150-350k
- active
- sense of community
- neighborly
- different
- fun
- Navy family
- affordable homes
- parks
- trendy
- opprotunity
so you've listed all the pro's for this and several other neighborhoods in Jacksonville..now on to the con's...no column for that...
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