Lesson for Jacksonville Planners: Urban living is the future (Miami: condos, buy)

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by fsu813

So the paranoia has finally taken grasp.

"Obviously part of some downtown advocacy group" ?????

(ha) I wish! I work in the medical field. Rather boring in comparison.

Downtown has plenty of flaws, as have been documented. (Pssst...that's why this thread was started, if you didn't notice).

It also has many great things, which aren't nearly as well known by some people...as can see by many uninformed comments.

And please do visit www.metrojacksonville.com. Every day.

It's the best, most well-informed and educated discussion about all things transportation, urban, planning, development, revitalization, and even features important history. There's some nonsense on there too, of course, as they can't ban everyone, but it's usually pretty intelligent conversation. Oh, and that site has mentioned everything i've ever posted on City-Data realting to urban living, as well. So which is it?

I think you'll find your rants to be dismissed rather quickly there as just that. You won't find many serious, in-the-know people there who think anything is "hopeless".

But, I don't like exaggerated or ridiculously sweeping statements or assumptions, so I correct them. And there seem to be plenty out there.

It's a thankless task, but obviously needed.

If you'd like more examples of incorrect, exaggerated comments being passed as fact...i'd be happy to oblige. (Hint: "...still being demolished with no end in sight" is another wildy false statement. Would you like more examples?).

Things can be hopeless. If Shands' budget is cut by $60 million - it will be in a pretty hopeless position:

Shands Jacksonville claim: $60 million state budget slash endangers hospital | jacksonville.com

Robyn

[fsu813]

Well, there are things for you to do, but not many. As I stated.

If there were only a few things to do for a young guy in the evenings out in Mandarin, I wouldn't drive all the way out there either. Oh that's right, I don't. =)

So I don't blame you for not wanting to travel a long distance, just to enjoy 3-4 places.

That 2x2 sq mile area just isn't as "old people friendly" as it needs to be to get someone to drive 20+ miles, I guess.

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Things can be hopeless. If Shands' budget is cut by $60 million - it will be in a pretty hopeless position:

Shands Jacksonville claim: $60 million state budget slash endangers hospital | jacksonville.com

Robyn

(1) What does this have to do with anything? Shands isn't even in Downtown.

(2) Hopeless for whom? The poor people that would otherwise receive services? yes, that would be horrible for them. But it would have zero affect on urban living.

Or did you mean to post this elsewhere?

[fsu813]

Houston, Texas, a poster child for suburban sprawl and unsustainable development practices, has even seen the light.

So when will Jacksonville leaders?


From just a few days ago: New Klineberg survey reveals a love for urban living, no big belief in global warming - 2011-Apr-19 - CultureMap Houston

A thirst for denser urban design and faith in Houston's future characterize the results of the 2011 Kinder Houston Area Survey. Now in its 30th year, the document serves as a benchmark of Harris County residents' experiences, demographic patterns, attitudes and beliefs. The process is overseen by Rice University professors Stephen Klineberg and Michael Emerson, directors of the Kinder Institute for Urban Research.

The survey's data was culled from a representative sample of 750 Harris County residents (including 240 cell phone respondents) contacted by the Survey Research Institute of the Hobby Center for Public Policy at the University of Houston.

"One of the most important findings of this year's study is that 45 percent of Harris County residents want to live in more urbanized neighborhoods with homes that are in walking distance to work, shops and restaurants," Klineberg tells CultureMap. "It's a solid finding. You've got a bunch of young professionals, either single or married with no children, and then all these empty nesters with 30 years ahead of them who also want to live in urban areas."

Klineberg cites downtown as among the neighborhoods receiving a response in the new demand for urban environments. "You can see it happening already. The $4.5 billion in downtown revitalization is starting to pay off," he says. "Downtown has the best law firms, banks, theater district and restaurants. There's a lot of appeal."

The skyline isn't the only area that we'll witness residential growth. "One thing that Houston does is respond to demands in the pursuit of profit," Klineberg says. "You'll see growth along the 65 future METRO Rail stops and a focus on building high rises and transit-oriented communities with amenities like sidewalk cafés."


Full article at the link above.

Obviously this national movement has helped those Jacksonville neighborhoods that feature density, walkable/bikeable streets, cafes & shops with in walking distance, and other urban lifestyle characterstics....but Downtown still needs that spark. Houston is seeing the benefits, Jacksonville will to as soon as we decide to invest in our future. It pays off big. $$$$

[mississippimagnolia]

Originally Posted by Robyn55

Too bad. In most places (probably this metro area too) - people in my age group (55-64 - and we're old enough to be grandparents) have the highest incomes and the most disposable income. No downtown area worth its salt wants to chase people like us away. Robyn

THIS. A million times THIS!

That's exactly what I was trying to convey in my earlier post. It's great that you want to attract "young hip executives" to your downtown. Unfortunately, those are not the people with the money.

Maybe you have to be older to really understand that. Our oldest is about to graduate from college. And the others will follow quickly. We have signficantly more disposable income now than we did when we were younger. And we'll have more as the kids continue to leave home.

We may have been "the cool young executives" twenty years ago...but we weren't making six figures back then like we do now. We are exactly the group you should be targeting.

[fsquid]

they should target both.

[madcapmagishion]

they should target everyone ...as lifeless as downtown is they cant afford to be choosy

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by fsu813

(1) What does this have to do with anything? Shands isn't even in Downtown.

(2) Hopeless for whom? The poor people that would otherwise receive services? yes, that would be horrible for them. But it would have zero affect on urban living.

Or did you mean to post this elsewhere?

You seem to have a very narrow definition of downtown. Shands is on 8th Street. Robyn

[fsquid]

anything north of 1st isn't Downtown.

[fsu813]

Yes, Robyn.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread. People have different definitions of "downtown".

Most locals think of downtown as just where the tall buildings are, which is a 2x2 sq mile area, possibly 3x3 sq miles if you include the sports district.

This is the area the newspaper, Mayoral candidates, and everyone else is referring to when downtown is discussed.

The prominent close-by neighborhoods that surround downtown are infinitely more successful, and are quite in-demand. Huge difference.

Now that this fundamental starting point is understood, perhaps this changes your perspective.