I love it here! (Jacksonville, Miami: house, transfer, living in)

[riveree]

Originally Posted by dvigor

To riveree: I have read a lot of your posts and I must say they are very informative and sometimes amusing but unfortunately very skewed on the ultra conservative side and paint an unrealistic picture. Everything you rave about Jacksonville having can be said about most any community in Florida or elsewhere. Every place has shopping, restaurants, bars, movie theaters, libraries, parks, beaches, etc., etc.

When people consider moving somewhere they need to know about the different and down sides of the area. The upside always takes care of itself. People are not coming to Jacksonville for St. John's Town Center. It is just a shopping center that everyplace else has had for many years. The same goes for McDonalds, Taco Bell, yada...yada...yada.

People need to know that the murder and crime rate are the highest by far in Florida. One of the newer areas, the Southside, has out-of-control burglaries, home invasions, and muggings. Two people were killed in a very good area last week alone. There is a controversy because the police don't seem to take much of an interest in curbing the crime. Jacksonville Beach is also riddled with crime. Comparing the beaches here to beaches in Boca Raton, Ft. Lauderdale, Palm Beach, Tampa, Miami, Sarasota, etc. is also ridiculous. No comparison. Jax loses big time. The employment picture in Jacksonville is bleak at best. Big buildings full of entry level customer service, sales, retail, generally low paying desk jobs. I know lots of people at Blue Cross, Bank of America, Merrill Lynch, Wachovia, and others. One of the lowest average salaries in the country. As for shopping in Jacksonville, it is mediocre at best. Nothing upscale or better stores normal to other areas. I don't think there is even a Whole Foods Market anywhere. As I said before even Ocala and Gainesville offers much more. Small Town America even has better stores. Jacksonville is certainly not considered a progressive or educated town either. Will never be Seattle. Being laid back as you say is fine but ambition and advancement are also very important to most people that just doesn't exist here. Jacksonville seems to be the last town in Florida to get anything even though it has the population. I'm not sure why.

You are right, maybe my expectations were too high. I want to get ahead and make a better living, shop at better and familiar stores, get a better education, not get shot or stabbed going to a store in broad daylight, not get my front door bashed in while I'm home, meet well educated and ambitious people who actually want to do something with their lives other than go to minimum wage jobs in flip flops, have something to do other than getting drunk in some dark bar with rebel flags everywhere, be free to express my opinions even if they are not ultra bible belt conservative, hold an intelligent conversation with people who actually know what you are talking about, and more.

The bottom line is guess is if you are motivated and have high expectations in life don't move to Jacksonville. If you just want to get by and don't mind low to mediocre then this just may be your town. By the way, believe it or not I don't mean to offend anybody at all whether here or anywhere else. This is just the way I see it and many others I have spoken with.

Well that's the first time I've ever been called Ultra Conservative (or even Conservative for that matter!) ! I take it as a compliment - I sometimes have to hold my tongue/keyboard and not say what I'd really like to for the sake of peace on the forum, and I guess that makes me come off looking conservative? Oh well, okay .

Also consider that I answer a lot of questions and the questions are usually generic variations on the same: Where are the nice neighborhoods? Where are the nice schools? What kind of shopping is there? Restaurants? How's the weather? The Crime? Etc., etc., etc. Some topics come up over and over because people often don't do a search first.

You're right, we have had the highest rate for murder in Florida - we've been the "Murder Capital" for quite a few years running (I've said that many times on CityData, by the way - it comes up a lot on the general Florida forum, but not as much here on the Jax subforum). It appears that crown is now being handed to Orlando. Still, we continue to have a high murder rate.

But the murders are not random in any fashion, and THAT IS KEY. The bulk of the murders happen in the economically challenged NorthWest region of the city. When was the last time someone posted here on CityData looking to move to one of THOSE neighborhoods? Answer: Never. Another way the murders are not random is that the murderer and the victim usually know each other. It is often a family dispute, a drug dispute, etc. Sure, there are exceptions, but this, as a whole, is the rule.

Southside crime......here's the picture: Most of the recent robberies are of COMMERCIAL locations (business robberies). The auto burglaries? Unlocked cars! The person-to-person theft/"muggings"? Almost always the victim was intoxicated and was out very late at night. The very, very few home invasions (not even a handful)? The people knew each other - none of these has been random. Some people are dumb. They don't lock their doors. They let shady people know what they have in their homes. They buy or sell drugs. They don't have a designated driver looking out for their interests.

How can I say all of that? Becuase I don't get my crime news from the media - I go directly to the source of factual information - the Sherrif's Office. This way, I know what's going on in my area and often what the resolution/outcome is, so I get to hear a bit of the "inside scoop" .

By the way, the police are VERY interested in bringing our crime levels down and they would love to have the assistance of the citizens, so if it's a concern of yours, call your local substation and ask them what you can do. It's better that just griping about it, right ?

I'm not going to go into the whole thing about the stores with you again. You just haven't looked around enough to find the stores you want. I gave you an extensive list on another thread with the kind of stores you're looking for that are already here and are coming here.......I guess you didn't read it ? By the way, Whole Foods is in Jax, they are opening soon in Mandarin.

In closing, stop hanging out in bars draped in rebel flags! What are you doing on the Westside anyway ? If you hang out with that crowd, no wonder you can't get a decent paying job !

Riveree
who refuses to see the glass half empty

[dvigor]

Thanks for your response, Riveree. As I said nothing personal. You seem like a very nice person and intelligent. These are just the views of an outsider who has experienced better in many different areas.

As far as the crime goes, it was in the newspaper maybe two months ago that burglaries, theft, and home invasions were up something like 137% on the Southside alone. I think it was the worst in the city. This info came directly from the Sheriff's Office. The report also said people call the police and they are very unwilling to even look into the matter because they are too busy. All these crimes are happening at residences in good areas and even gated communities. I checked out some apartment complexes before moving and most of the very expensive gated ones had burglaries and car thefts galore out of control. One woman had her door bashed in robbed and the police did not even bother investigating.

As for stores, I was referring to normal to upscale large anchor stores that exist everywhere else but here. Whole Foods has been around for years in S. Florida and so has everything else. Most people are looking for larger stores and not small specialty shops that are overpriced. By the way these specialty shops have been everywhere else for years and years also. They only seem to be new and special to Jacksonville. FYI Macy's and Norsdstrom and Sacks, and Bloomingdales have great merchandise and great sales that small specialty type places just do not have.

I don't hang out on the westside. I don't even know where it is. I also do not hang out in bars. I may go socially once in a great while or maybe happy hour with coworkers but that's about it. I have only been to the Southside and to the beach. As I said the beach is third rate and doesn't compare with other Florida beaches. I wouldn't waste my time again. Go to Ft. Lauderdale or S.Florida and you will see what I mean. I find the Southside to be a big bedroom community with very little going on. If somebody can tell me otherwise that does not pertain to SJTC or another shopping district then I am all ears. I mean where do people hang out around these here parts?? Nobody can tell me and nobody seems to know or care.

I have a good job probably better than most do here in the $60K plus range. However I would like to do better and get further ahead. I am ambitious so shoot me. Most of the people around me are making $30K per year and they just settle for it. The job market in this town just doesn't seem conducive to growing good jobs. This town is more suited for college kids just getting into the job market who will be happy in low paying customer service or retail type jobs to get started. If you are one of the fortunate few to have a $70K plus job in this town and you lose it good luck finding another one. Just not enough industry or opportunity. Banks and mortgage companies pay nothing. There are a few smaller insurance companies with very little opportunity. Blue Cross is primarily low paying customer service or clerical. Merrill Lynch is boiler room sales. As I said there are some good jobs but nowhere near enough for the area to progress like the Northeast has.

I just do not understand how Jacksonville fell so far behind and is the last to get everything. The only thing I can think of is the lack of money and the education and ambition level of the people here. If you have never been anywhere else you may not notice but many of us do. This is my underlying concern and why I cannot recommend this area to anybody. Progress is just too slow and too low for up and comers. As I said before if stagnation is your goal then by all means.............

[riveree]

DVigor,

People also hang out afterwork in San Marco and downtown - you'll find a more professional scene here than many other hangout areas. Try Mark's and London Bridge downtown (there are others too). The Grotto is in San Marco and there's a theater there if that's your scene:

http://www.theatrejax.com/

And there's also another kind of theater - the movie kind - where they serve drinks, etc.:

http://www.sanmarcotheatre.com/

There's an upcoming Art & Winefest with music at the Hyatt, it's a fundraiser for Shands Neonatal Intensive Care (check out details at www.969theeagle.com). It seems like everywhere is having wine tastings now - even regular restaurants seem to be getting in on the trend.

Another trend are the Hookah bars, there are a few of those around now too and I hear they bring in a good crowd. Then there are always the regular nightclubs like Plush, etc. If you like art, get on the mailing lists for the local galleries and check out their events. The Jacksonville Film Festival also has some great events (the festival just passed) with a good quality of people - try getting involved with them if you have any interest in film:

http://www.jacksonvillefilmfestival.com/

Yes, it is a big spread out area here and so the nightlife does seem to fracture itself - some people hang out at the beach, others downtown, others in San Marco, etc. I don't think people can really understand just how spread out things are here until they get here and see for themselves. Those other cities you mentioned are not 840 square miles, so I'm sure their nightlife scene IS different - it is probably concentrated in one area which makes it more vibrant. But even in those cities, the nightlife scene can't be perfect. Just like any city, some nightlife locations will be a good fit, others won't. In one night you might have to hit 2 or 3 locations to find the right groove you're looking for, that's not going to be any different in Jax.

You hit the nail on the head with your statement 'I don't know why Jax has to be the last to get everything'. In the long run, I think this will ultimately be one of Jacksonville's strengths. The city has been able to preserve land like no other Florida city - we have the largest parks system and that is no small feat. If you don't use the parks system, you may say 'who cares?', but years from now when Jax is built out we'll see what a difference that makes. We'll also see what a difference it makes that Jax was later to fully develop, unlike some of the South Florida cities which were developed out in the 60's and 70's. Jax has learned from the mistakes of those cities. Jax is a city of the future and it's not quite there yet. Did you know that the estimate is that we will have a population of 6 million people by 2025? NYC, by comparison, has a population of roughly 8 million today.

2025 is a long time from now (you don't want to know how old I'll be by then ), but going out even 5 years from now, I think you'll be suprised. I'll bet that in 5 years, we'll have many of the stores and such that you're looking for. It's an easy bet for me to make since I know some of them have already committed to coming to Jacksonville .

If you're a young single person, $60k/yr is not bad, and if you're patient, I bet you will make more. There are jobs here that pay more, and if you stay here and network a bit, you might be suprised.

Atlanta might be a good fit, but you sound like you might be suited for NYC actually, might want to give it a thought (awesome city!) .

[riveree]

Originally Posted by dvigor

As far as the crime goes, it was in the newspaper maybe two months ago that burglaries, theft, and home invasions were up something like 137% on the Southside alone. I think it was the worst in the city. This info came directly from the Sheriff's Office. The report also said people call the police and they are very unwilling to even look into the matter because they are too busy. All these crimes are happening at residences in good areas and even gated communities. I checked out some apartment complexes before moving and most of the very expensive gated ones had burglaries and car thefts galore out of control. One woman had her door bashed in robbed and the police did not even bother investigating.

Forgot to address this (amazing considering how long my post is above ):

Just as an example, one neighborhood on the Southside was recently hit hard with auto burglaries (which is when they steal stuff from inside the auto - not the auto itself). In one hit, something like 17 or 18 cars were burglarized. Nearly every single one of those cars was unlocked ! the police said that what the criminals do is go from car to car and just check the doors, if it's open, bingo! Now how stupid is that? Not only did these citizens become a victim of crime, but they used our police resources, tax dollars, etc. because they were too lazy to lock their car doors. Statistically this kind of thing brings the crime stats waaaaay up for that zip code and it could have been easily prevented. They caught the thieves who did this too (not that THAT story ever makes the news ).

Don't believe these people who say the police told them 'we're too busy to look into a crime' - there's no way the police would, or could, refuse to look into a crime, the truth lies elsewhere .

[backtofla]

"Did you know that the estimate is that we will have a population of 6 million people by 2025?"


riveree, you are a wealth of information, but no way do i belive this... do you??? i think most ppl there dont want that kind of population. that is way too big!!! ppl like myself would leave if it ever got that big...

[backtofla]

according to demographia.com, the projected population of jax is 1,466,000 in the yr 2025. not trying to overthrow your projections or what you've read, but just for my own sake i looked it up.

[fastninja500]

dvigor,

If you're really ambitious, and wanting more from life, move to NYC, Chicago, LA or San Francisco. Compete with the best-of-the-best (NYC). That's why they make the big bucks. Move jobs every couple of years or so to get that major bump in pay every time. Heck, go free-lance, for the tax advantages and for financial independence. You'll be making over 200K within a couple of years. If you work smart and hard and have good networking abilities. Fairly simple, right?!

Don't waste your time and energy in a city you're not happy at. Life is too short.

Want some real excitement and lots of moolah? Become a boutique drug dealer to the Wall Street types. Them brokers pay top dollar for high-class produce, while they execute gajillions worth of trades world wide. And, the job is not as dangerous as the street dealers who get chased and shot at .............. a sense of humor needed here folks ....

I moved here from NYC/NJ last June. So far, I'm having a ball. I've met so many nice folks here at my company (one of those you mentioned). Made enough friends. If anything, I'm the one begging off from having lunch outs everyday and too frequent after work drinks. Haven't had a problem with the local Floridians. In fact, I like the southern hospitality a lot. Been to some "unique", hole-in-the-wall joints around Jax - "Jenkins" or "Angie's Subs". Everyone is so friendly. Sure, there are negatives just like in any city. I can't come up with one right now as I tend to just shrug those negatives off.

And if the economy tanks and we all get laid off, then we move on to other gigs. If the fairly recent immigrants can get jobs that pay 80 grand a year, I'm sure us natives can get at least that, right? If not, fire your agent. Heck, one should always have several agents at any point in time.

One of the many reasons I moved to Jax is to pursue a better quality of life and a more promising future. See, moving to Jax has given me lots of time to pursue other ventures, since I left the rat race in NY/NJ.

If you're bored here in Jax, that implies you have a lot of time on your hands right now. Turn that into a positive and put up a business of some kind. Explore other business possibilities. Learn to invest in the stock market. The commodities market. Futures trading. Real estate investing (oops, wrong one, for now). Buy a Porsche or BMW. Just driving these Teutonic machines will make your day!

Too costly for now? Learn a new craft like Web App development. Java/.NET/Python/Ruby. You'll double your salary in a year. Well, maybe not double. But certainly much better than what you make now. And get a better agent.

Better yet. Become a lawyer. Not just a "good" lawyer. But a SHARK! A real humdinger of a slip-and-fall trial lawyer who'll sue everyone in sight in pursuit of "life, liberty and gobs of money".

Enjoy the outdoors. Go scuba diving. Surfing. Buy a motorcycle. A jet ski. A boat. Play tennis. Join a sports league. Join a gun club. There's so many things to do here in Jax?! I'm an introvert and I'm having fun here. A Russian guy I work with, who has limited command of the English language, is having a blast living in Jax, compared to his life in Brooklyn. He's even gone into Jet Skiing.

I was never a fan of the Bergdorfs, Nordstroms, Saks etc.... so I don't miss those top tier establishments at all. Sigh! Its nice to have no taste nor class . Also, knowing the REAL cost of the goods they sell at those establishments, I can't get myself to pay retail. So I guess I'm a cheap bastard as well .

If shopping at those places is very important to you, then move to those cities that have them.

Miss having Intellectual discussions? Go to NYC. Greenwich Village. Or the Upper Westside. That's what "elite" Europeans do for fun (just kidding, okay?).

As reveree said:

Don't move here looking for Bergdorfs or Bendels, don't move here looking for the Metropolitan Museum of Art, don't move here looking for the finest French restaurants.

Move here for a more relaxed pace of life, the Ocean, clean air, bright sunny days, incredible flora and fauna, outdoor activities and Southern culture and history.

Okay. Guess I'm done for now. Its Friday. Time to have fun....... Again .... If I don't login and reply anytime soon, its probably because ....... you guessed it: I'm having way too much fun here in Jax. Yikes, I'm about to miss Happy Hour with my drunken buddies.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by backtofla

"Did you know that the estimate is that we will have a population of 6 million people by 2025?"


riveree, you are a wealth of information, but no way do i belive this... do you??? i think most ppl there dont want that kind of population. that is way too big!!! ppl like myself would leave if it ever got that big...

It was a big story last year based on the rate of development at that time. I believe it was for the entire Jacksonville Metro area, so that would include all the unincorporated parts and even parts of Northern St. Johns county since it will all blend together.

1,466,000 seems a little low since we're already over a million not counting St. John's county at all.......that would mean only another 400,000 or so in the next 18 years.......

Who knows ?

I'll check out demographia though, I haven't seen that site yet.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by fastninja500

dvigor,

Sigh! Its nice to have no taste nor class .

It IS nice, isn't it ! I can't believe how much I used to care about clothes .

Great post, FastNinja ! I really appreciate it. I was starting to wonder "Am I crazy for liking it here? Has my mind turned to mush?" But you're seeing that Jax has a lot going for it too .

[Floridabound09]

Originally Posted by riveree

Well that's the first time I've ever been called Ultra Conservative (or even Conservative for that matter!) ! I take it as a compliment - I sometimes have to hold my tongue/keyboard and not say what I'd really like to for the sake of peace on the forum, and I guess that makes me come off looking conservative? Oh well, okay .

Also consider that I answer a lot of questions and the questions are usually generic variations on the same: Where are the nice neighborhoods? Where are the nice schools? What kind of shopping is there? Restaurants? How's the weather? The Crime? Etc., etc., etc. Some topics come up over and over because people often don't do a search first.

You're right, we have had the highest rate for murder in Florida - we've been the "Murder Capital" for quite a few years running (I've said that many times on CityData, by the way - it comes up a lot on the general Florida forum, but not as much here on the Jax subforum). It appears that crown is now being handed to Orlando. Still, we continue to have a high murder rate.

But the murders are not random in any fashion, and THAT IS KEY. The bulk of the murders happen in the economically challenged NorthWest region of the city. When was the last time someone posted here on CityData looking to move to one of THOSE neighborhoods? Answer: Never. Another way the murders are not random is that the murderer and the victim usually know each other. It is often a family dispute, a drug dispute, etc. Sure, there are exceptions, but this, as a whole, is the rule.

Southside crime......here's the picture: Most of the recent robberies are of COMMERCIAL locations (business robberies). The auto burglaries? Unlocked cars! The person-to-person theft/"muggings"? Almost always the victim was intoxicated and was out very late at night. The very, very few home invasions (not even a handful)? The people knew each other - none of these has been random. Some people are dumb. They don't lock their doors. They let shady people know what they have in their homes. They buy or sell drugs. They don't have a designated driver looking out for their interests.

How can I say all of that? Becuase I don't get my crime news from the media - I go directly to the source of factual information - the Sherrif's Office. This way, I know what's going on in my area and often what the resolution/outcome is, so I get to hear a bit of the "inside scoop" .

By the way, the police are VERY interested in bringing our crime levels down and they would love to have the assistance of the citizens, so if it's a concern of yours, call your local substation and ask them what you can do. It's better that just griping about it, right ?

I'm not going to go into the whole thing about the stores with you again. You just haven't looked around enough to find the stores you want. I gave you an extensive list on another thread with the kind of stores you're looking for that are already here and are coming here.......I guess you didn't read it ? By the way, Whole Foods is in Jax, they are opening soon in Mandarin.

In closing, stop hanging out in bars draped in rebel flags! What are you doing on the Westside anyway ? If you hang out with that crowd, no wonder you can't get a decent paying job !

Riveree
who refuses to see the glass half empty

Hey Riveree...

I am like you I would rather be called an Ultra Conservative then an Ultra Liberal anyday.

Like the paragraph on the jobs as well, there are more jobs in Fla then anywhere under the sun, all one has to do is LOOK for one !!

Last I was in Orlando the company I visited needed janitors, starting pay at 10.00 per hour w/ free insurance after 60 days, they cannot keep them... as they work them 4 - 10 hour days in rotation and he told me NO ONE WANTS to work the weekend.

No wonder there are so may whiners about lack of jobs, the damn people want to choose their own hours of work.

OP - Congrats on loving it, you are No. 15 poster who I have watched post this info on how you ove Fla. Have some fun at the beach !