Is Jacksonville for me? (Naples, St. Augustine: sales, oceanfront, apartments)

[urbantraveler]

Was wondering if anyone could help me . . . I am looking to leave NYC after 20+ years here because it's too expensive, too crowded, etc. and am thinking about Jacksonville. In relocating, I am looking for an area with a good economy and a good quality of life (not too expensive, not nightmarish traffic) close to nature (either beach or mountains or forests) and with proximity to good restaurants and cultural activities (good art museums, foreign films, etc.). I know there is only one NYC, but do you think Jacksonville would be a good fit regarding the above?

What kind of people/demographic live in Jacksonville? Is there night life there? Clubs where there is live music / jazz or blues? Is it relatively safe? Would it be a good choice for a single woman over 40? Is it possible to get a beachfront condo for approx. $300K or am I dreaming? Are there law firms (I'm a legal secretary). Does the cost of living correspond to the salaries? I don't always find this to be the case in some places.

I am also looking to avoid the "snowbird" phenomenon of South Florida as much as possible. Are there lots of them in Jacksonville?

Also, is Jacksonville more culturally interesting than a place like Naples? Not much going on there, in my opinion, and too many snowbirds (not what I'm looking for).

I don't know much about the area, so any information would be very helpful. Thanks so much.

[mawipafl]

Hello urbantraveler ...

You'll find quite a number of threads about Jacksonville - its highlights, "lowlights", cultural events and activities, traffic issues, etc. - and you'll find quite a few opinions.

Jacksonville is not a city in which you can stroll the sidewalks at any given hour of day or night and find it teeming with energy and bright lights with lots of 24-hour coffee shops or restaurant rows or theater districts. There's no subway to pop from one end of town to another - a car is definitely needed.

Do I consider any of this a negative? No, I don't. It's certainly not a smaller, less crowded version of NYC, but the First Coast area does have its share of excellent restaurants, museums, theaters, movie houses, etc.

I suggest surfing through a couple of pages of threads and read some of the responses to others who are considering a move here. This forum has some incredibly knowledgable folks!

As well, there are a number of Jacksonville websites that detail events and venues in the area. Try some of these as "jumping off" points:

Downtown Jacksonville: Home

Welcome to The Florida Theatre

MOCA Jacksonville | Museum of Contemporary Art Jacksonville

[riveree]

I relocated here from NYC as well .

Mawipafl gave a really good description of Jax, I'll see what I can add:

CLOSE TO NATURE: Yes, definitely! This is one of the reasons I moved here as well. A 2 hour ride on the Jitney just wasn't cutting it . Jacksonville has done very well with land conservation. Jacksonville has the largest parks system in the nation. You don't have to go far at all to find a park here. A brand new 15 acre park just went in near me, and another one nearby was just completely revamped - Jax is serious about its' parks ! Many of the parks are beachside, check these out:

Hanna Park:
http://www.coj.net/Departments/Parks+and+Recreation/Recreation+Activities/Hanna+Park/default.htm (broken link)

Guana Park (straddles both Jacksonville and St. Augustine):
http://nerrs.noaa.gov/GTM/welcome.html

Talbot Islands:
http://www.floridastateparks.org/big...nd/default.cfm

List of city parks in Jax:
http://apps2.coj.net/parksinternet/

Extensive list of parks in and near Jax:
http://www.floridastateparks.org/inf...Adventures.cfm

WHERE TO LIVE: While you should be able to find a condo at the beach in the $300k range, it will not be oceanfront. You should still be able to get within a reasonable walking distance though. For $300k you can buy a nice, good-sized single family home if you come in 4 or 5 miles from the ocean.....just a thought .

CLUBS/NIGHTLIFE/SINGLE: You'll be fine, we have all the things you mentioned, just on a much smaller scale than NYC - the arts and culture scene is much more intimate here, but there's enough of it to keep you busy. As a single person, you'll be fine in Jax - the median age here is 36.

SNOWBIRDS: I'm sure we have some, but they're hardly noticable - nothing like SouthWest Florida in that regard.

LAW FIRMS/PAY SCALE/COST OF LIVING: Law Firms galore, like much of Florida. Pay scale is something else - overall it's much lower in Florida. You might get lucky and find a good-paying position, especially if you have a lot of experience. Cost of living here is rising, especially in housing. Of course, you'd need a car here, which is a significant expense, so you'll want to consider that as well. You'll spend less on clothing (very casual here), less on entertainment, and Florida has no income tax and there is no city tax in Jacksonville, so that's a big help. I found that I spent a lot more on housing + car when I moved to Florida than I spend on housing + public transportation in NYC.

If you're really "over" NYC and ready for a completely different, heavily suburban-style life, then I think you'll like Jax .

[Stonewall17]

Originally Posted by riveree

I found that I spent a lot more on housing + car when I moved to Florida than I spend on housing + public transportation in NYC.

If you're really "over" NYC and ready for a completely different, heavily suburban-style life, then I think you'll like Jax .

Riveree, maybe I misconstrued the first sentence here (since your observations are always right on) because even with car ownership in the equation, cost of living here should be markedly lower.

My principal reason for leaving NY was economic. I was perfectly happy to leave behind 9% sales tax (or thereabouts), heating costs that went through the roof in the wintry months, $35 parking if I happened to venture into Manhattan (yes, I lived in the burbs), property taxes 2-1/2 times higher than my current tax bill. OK, I admit that my water bills were smaller. So, urbantraveler, I can relate.

Riveree, you were right on target with: If you're really "over" NYC. There is definitely a unique aura, something magnetic about NYC. Alot of NYers would consider it heresy to pack up and leave for a warmer, friendlier, more amenable lifestyle. They are willing to put up with the rudeness, the shoveling, the long commutes, the traffic and all the other perceived negatives only because they want to live in (or near) what is considered around the world as the "greatest city". (By the way, this is one reason that NYers outside of NY are always going to be at the receiving end of potshots ... even on this forum).

It was the allure of the beaches, the climate, the landscape, the slower pace and the friendliness of people here; all those things, that did it for me and so far I have had no regrets. Urbantraveler, remember you can always fly back occasionally for a Broadway show or Radio City or a Carnegie Hall concert and it won't break the bank.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by Stonewall17

Riveree, maybe I misconstrued the first sentence here (since your observations are always right on) because even with car ownership in the equation, cost of living here should be markedly lower.

My principal reason for leaving NY was economic. I was perfectly happy to leave behind 9% sales tax (or thereabouts), heating costs that went through the roof in the wintry months, $35 parking if I happened to venture into Manhattan (yes, I lived in the burbs), property taxes 2-1/2 times higher than my current tax bill. OK, I admit that my water bills were smaller. So, urbantraveler, I can relate.

I was living in the city (Manhattan) prior to moving here, so I did not have a car living in NYC. My rent was actually quite reasonable - but this was appx a decade ago, those same apartments I had for $650-$750 are easily $1200 or more a month now.

When I left NYC to move to the First Coast (initially St. Augustine), my housing was not dramatically less, but now I was required to have a car since public transportation is impractical in St. Aug/Jax. A car is much more expensive per month than the subway . Adding the 2 together, it cost me more for housing + transportation in Florida than it did in NYC.

Just as a side note, for the OP or anyone else considering making the same move, there were 2 other car-related things I learned:

1) Though I had a car at an earlier time, I eventually gave it up because it just wasn't necessary in NYC. I kept my license and still drove from time to time, but had no car insurance. When I lived to Florida, I found out that insurance companies consider that a LAPSE in insurance. Even though I had been the one to cancel the insurance (and always paid on time, etc.), they technically term it a "lapse". I guess the idea being, for about 10 years there was no insurance track record for me . So, I had to pay a crazy high rate initially just to obtain insurance (a 'high risk' rate of some sort). Once I could show 6 months with no speeding tickets, etc., my rate dropped down to a more normal rate. I don't know if anything has changed with this crazy insurance issue, so it's something to watch for if you don't currently have car insurance.

2) I did not realize that I would have to commute so far to where the work was and initially moved to the southern end of St. Augustine....turns out the jobs are far north of there . So I really underestimated the gas consumption and commute time initially. Though I had vacationed in the area many, many times, the distances really did not occur to me until after I moved here. These were of course in the days before forums such as this one......now I'd be able to ask all those Q's !

[Spilml]

its defintely no nyc but i imagine here is so much better you might never look back..... we will have a macys soon haha and we have lots of shopping malls and neat stuff to do if you have money to spend you will see the difference in the downtown areas here downtown is really kind of deseted taken over by the homeless since I10 ends here in a little neighborhood called riverside .... but living in the neighborhoods of jacksonville is nice just dont be supriesed by the horrible downtown

[dcarlo]

We just bought my family's home in Murray Hill. We have been living in upstate NY for30+ years. It will be nice to retire in 10 or 12 years and not have to shovel that white stuff!!

[riveree]

Originally Posted by dcarlo

We just bought my family's home in Murray Hill. We have been living in upstate NY for30+ years. It will be nice to retire in 10 or 12 years and not have to shovel that white stuff!!

You won't miss that snow a bit !

[lokahi]

To speak to the law firm question, yes, there are plenty of law firms here in Jax. Check out a group called "Special Counsel", they're a staffing agency and can place you w/a firm. Legal jobs aren't really posted in Jax, it's more of a who you know type of thing. But, if they are, they're posted on www.craigslist.org and in the Florida Times Union (Jax newspaper). Mostly it's litigation (personal injury, corporate, insurance defense), along w/some maritime and aviation law. Big firms and small firms exist side by side, and they're all mostly in downtown Jacksonville, which is about a 45 min commute from the beach. We've got national firms and regional firms along with smaller local firms...

[vdecapio]

I think NYC to Jax is too much of a culture shock. Few singles, people think differently here in the south, and the food is not even comparable on any standards. Diversity is so much less also. And there is no energy here either in terms of nightlife or even daylife....unless you like the energy of watching people drive from stoplight to stoplight. And you will do an excessive amount of driving. I have not met anyone who has actually enjoyed their move from any large city to Jax as a single. This is not a city. It is a small town full of rednecks and backwardness.

I would try smaller cities before jax.....that would give you less of an expensive city feel, but still give you energy and a cool vibe. You will not find energy or anything cool in Jax. Here are a few recs:

Austin, TX
Boulder, CO
Chicago, IL (still a city, but not as crowded and cheaper)
Raleigh-Durham, NC
Madison, WI
Manchester, NH


Also check out the book Who's Your City by Richard Florida to find your perfect place to live. I can't imagine it is Jacksonville. Anyone from the northeast will not like Jax as a single, I don't care how old you are.