Detroit to Jacksonville (Trinity, Hastings: low income, home, magnet school)

[JaxBlueMan]

OK, attached are the actual facts regarding SAT scores for St. Johns County, and Bolles, and Episcopal.

St. Johns County. 1561 average SAT
St. Johns County School District - District Facts and Figures 2010-2011


Episcopal, 1770 average SAT, that's 13.4% better than St, Johns County
Episcopal School of Jacksonville - Jacksonville, Florida/FL - Private School Review


Bolles, 1800 average SAT, that's 15.3% better than St. Johns County
The Bolles School - Jacksonville, Florida/FL - Boarding School Profile - Boarding School Review


So, I'm not sure what Duval Private schools you may have been referencing where the students were one year behind the St. Johns County Schools, but it sure wasn't these two.

The facts are that yes, on average the St. Johns County high schools are better than a State wide average high school, but when it comes to being compared to a good private school, they don't stack up very well.

[Shannon4426]

For St. Johns county schools, you listed the average for all schools in the district. If you want to use that number, you'd need to compare it to the average of all private schools combined as well.

But we're talking individual schools here, obviously, the high-performing ones in NW St. Johns. Take, for example, Nease. The IB program had a 2011 average SAT score of 2020. That's 12.2% higher than Bolles, and about $80K less.

Allen D. Nease High School - Information about Nease IB

As Emeril would say...BAMMMM!!!

[JaxBlueMan]

Originally Posted by Shannon4426

For St. Johns county schools, you listed the average for all schools in the district. If you want to use that number, you'd need to compare it to the average of all private schools combined as well.

But we're talking individual schools here, obviously, the high-performing ones in NW St. Johns. Take, for example, Nease. The IB program had a 2011 average SAT score of 2020. That's 12.2% higher than Bolles, and about $80K less.

Allen D. Nease High School - Information about Nease IB

As Emeril would say...BAMMMM!!!

Bolles also has their own Honors and AP students that scored well above the Nease IB average of 'only' 2020. But that's all out of context anyway. You have to be pretty intellectually dishonest to try to use some small outlying group of students or figures, and spin them as representive of the overall County, or all students.

The figures that I attached consider ALL student testing scores at Bolles and Episcopal, vs ALL testing scores for the St. Johns County students that actually took the SAT.

Obviously, the St. Johns County students that decided not to go to college, and therefore chose not to even take the SAT in the first place, would have ON AVERAGE scored much lower than the 1561 SAT score. (all Bolles and Episcopal students take the SAT, because there aren't any non college bound students from those two schools) So, the actual variance between the test scores for all Bolles/Episcopal students, and all St. Johns County students, is really far greater than the 15% I have already shown.

There are only 7 high schools in all of St, Johns County, so how does it benefit my argument that I included the average of all of them? That's the whole point. Keeping the facts in context is necessary in order to show an intelligent, honest, complete picture, rather than trying to make a point with some out of context, self serving dribble.

You made the specific comment that students from Bolles, Episcopal, BK or SJCD were a year behind the St. Johns public schools.

But I've heard of kids coming from a school you've listed above into St. Johns public schools and being up to a year behind.

Therefore, it is completely relevent that I use the total St, Johns County averages.

As with any group of 800 students, (Bolles) or 10,00 students (SJC public high schools) there will be individual exceptions, but the facts show that on average the students from Bolles and Episcopal not only score better than the average SJC student, but they score FAR better. The fact that you had to stoop to using Nease IB scores to try to prove your point, only strengthens my argument.

I'm pretty sure that when you made your comment in red above, you just pulled some nice sounding, self serving statement out of your a*s, and then you got called on it, so now your panties are all in a wad.

Facts are facts, whether you can fully grasp them or not. St. Johns County schools are above the State public school average, so they have something to be proud about, but St. Johns is still well behind Bolles and Episcopal.

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by jwolfer

St Vincents is building a new hospital in Clay County. I dont know how much support staff will be in Clay County but I would think that they would be expanding IT department.

Shands is building a facility near the River City Market Place too, on the Northside near the airport.



Shands Jacksonville's plans for Northside facility challenged | jacksonville.com

[fsu813]

Originally Posted by CoreLysium

Did she get one?

She's not IT. : )

[Shannon4426]

OK, fine, if you look at Nease's OVERALL average SAT score, it is 1743.

Nease - Ranking America's High Schools 2011 - The Washington Post

And I'm just picking Nease, there are others that are as good or better. So, that's only about 3% difference from Bolles.

And... you claim Bolles honor kids averaged better on the SAT's than Nease's IB? I'm guessing you pulled that one out of YOUR hind quarters, or you would've posted a link and the actual statistic.

I did absolutely hear of students coming from Bolles that were a year behind. What would you like me to do.. internet pinky-swear? Obviously that won't be the case with all of them. But it's pretty common knowledge around here that parents transfer their kids from the big-name private schools into NW SJC public schools because it's the SAME quality of education.

I never said that either one was overall better of worse, but someone took issue with me when I said that SJC schools were "excellent". If Bolles is the end-all that people pay $20K+ a year for, and SJC is within 3% of their performance, I don't think it's a stretch to say SJC has "excellent" schools. That's the only point I was trying to make!

As a service to people who come to this site for accurate information, I wanted to defend my statement that SJC has excellent schools. Thanks for helping me make my point!!!

[JaxBlueMan]

Originally Posted by Shannon4426

For St. Johns county schools, you listed the average for all schools in the district. If you want to use that number, you'd need to compare it to the average of all private schools combined as well.

But we're talking individual schools here, obviously, the high-performing ones in NW St. Johns. Take, for example, Nease. The IB program had a 2011 average SAT score of 2020. That's 12.2% higher than Bolles, and about $80K less.

Allen D. Nease High School - Information about Nease IB

As Emeril would say...BAMMMM!!!

Hey Emeril,

Take a look at the attached.

America's Best High Schools - The Daily Beast

2011 SAT scores
Bartram Trail, 1700
Creekside, 1569
Nease, 1414

So, I guess you were right. I shouldn't have used the whole St. Johns scoring averages. I should have specifically looked at Nease High School, just as you did.

Turns out, I was actually doing you a favor, by crediting Nease with the entire St. Johns County average test score, rather then it's own very average 1414 score.

Unless I'm forgetting my Private School first grade math, Bolles at 1800 is juuust a little bit better than Nease at 1414.

So, let's see. Bolles 1800, Episcopal 1770, Stanton 1864, Paxson, 1570, Anderson 1543. Should my child attend any of these schools, all of which rank far above Nease?

No, let's not do that, because Shannon4426 heard from a friend, who has a neice, that was at the grocery store one day, when they heard the person behind them say that their ex boyfriend knows a guy who had a cousin that used to go out with a girl who has a friend that heard a rumor that someone from Bolles/Episcopal/BK/SJCD was a year behind at Nease.

Yeh, right.

[Shannon4426]

Haven't you ever heard that sacrasm is the lowest form of wit?

Oh, I see, you went to a private school. Is that why you're ridiculously invested in this? So you scoured the internet to find a typo of Nease's scores... did you even read the link I posted?

If Nease was in the 1400's, why would it be ranked above dozens of schools in the 1600's?

This has become absurd. I didn't go to private school, but I have enough sense to know when I'm wasting my time. I think anyone interested in moving to St. Johns county will see for themselves how excellent our public schools are. Just go to Greatschools.org and you'll learn everything you ever wanted to know about any school.

[JaxBlueMan]

Originally Posted by Shannon4426

Haven't you ever heard that sacrasm is a crutch when you're argument is failing?

Oh, I see, you went to a private school. Is that why you're ridiculously invested in this? So you scoured the internet to find a typo of Nease's scores... did you even read the link I posted?

If Nease was in the 1400's, why would it be ranked above dozens of schools in the 1600's?

This has become absurd. I didn't go to private school, but I have enough sense to know when I'm wasting my time. I think anyone interested in moving to St. Johns county will see for themselves how excellent our public schools are. Just go to Greatschools.org and you'll learn everything you ever wanted to know about any school.

Come on Gomer. You're trying the old bait and switch game. This isn't about me.

This whole thing started when you shot your mouth off about something you knew nothing about. You picked a fight with someone that knows a whole lot more about the subject than you do.

I simply used actual facts and figures to paint you into a corner, and now you don't want to play anymore.

Fact. St. Johns County schools are better than the Florida State average for public schools. Good for you. I never said they weren't. But that's not what this whole thing has been about. You made the claim that SJC public schools are as good or better than Bolles, Episcopal, etc. It simply isn't true, and ALL of the facts support that conclusion.

Fact. St. Johns County public schools test scores are no where near as good as Bolles, Episcopal, etc. 1800 vs 1414, or 1800 vs 1561

Fact. Bolles has a very successful campus right in Ponte Vedra. Strange when you consider all the other free excellent St. Johns County alternatives that are located right in Ponte Vedra. I guess all of those well off parents, with their big disposable incomes, are just looking for stupid ways to waste their money.

Fact. Bolles has a dedicated bus line taking Ponte Vedra address students all the way to the San Jose campus each and every day. Again, this is strange what with all the free 'excellent' SJC school options right in Ponte Vedra. Why would a parent spend $20K a year, and bus their kid 30-40 minutes to San Jose, if the free local SJC educational options were anywhere near comparable?

Fact. Bolles retention rate is outstanding. My daughter and I unofficially calculated that it was 96% last year for the grade she is currently in. So, that 4% loss has to include any student who's parents were transferred out of town, any student who's parents financial situation may have negatively changed, any student who simply couldn't hack the rigorous academics, AND the mass of disenchanted parents and students who drop out of Bolles to attend the 'excellent' St. Johns County schools, as you claim. The math simply doesn't back your claim up.

Darn those PITA facts! They keep getting in the way don't they? Hey I know, maybe you should accuse me of sarcasm, so that you can try to shift the focus away from the facts.

And no I haven't heard that 'sacrasm' is a crutch, but I have heard that "Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
Daniel Patrick Moynihan

BAMMMMMM!

[madcapmagishion]

Lets not let the "Facts" stand in the way of a good argument!

Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclinations, or
the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter the state of facts and evidence. ~ John Adams