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Old 06-08-2012, 04:31 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville FL
336 posts, read 448,091 times
Reputation: 157

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cricketfan View Post
Robyn, actually the contribution you and JaxBlueMan make about funding education makes the most sense imo rather than some off-the-wall fantasy about bringing MLB to Jacksonville, especially since the OP question was:

What one thing would you be willing to pay more taxes for, in order to make Jacksonville better?

There are some things that we as taxpayers can truly accomplish with the right leadership and with the right budget targeting and raising the level of Duval schools is one of them. Sadly we see politicians seeking to cut funding instead.

I know that in today's economic climate, it's tough to try to sell any tax increase. But, regarding the DCPS system, I think I have an idea that wouldn't cost too much, and could start us down the right path.

#1. Take all of the 1200 total IB students that are currently attending Paxson and Stanton High Schools, and move them all to one of these two schools. Let's just use Stanton for arguments sake. Stanton would then become a 100% IB school. No other students other than those qualified for the IB program. Since Stanton has a capacity of 1600 total students, this would mean we have opened up an additional 400 IB slots for our best students throughout the County. That's a plus. Maybe these additional 400 top slots would encourage some of the more affluent households to stay in Duval, rather than moving out to St. Johns.

#2. Take Paxson, and turn it into just the opposite. A school for the 1600 most challenged students throughout the County. I believe that magnet schools should be just as concerned with our bottom performing students, as they are with our top students. If we ignore these students, I think it's a 'penny wise pound foolish' philosophy. We can pay a little more to educate them today, or we can pay for them over the next 40 years, in the form of government support programs.

#3. Take the 2000 total non IB students that are currently attending Paxson and Stanton, and push them back into their neighboorhood schools. These 2000 students shouldn't even be allowed to attend Paxon or Stanton in the first place, as they are taking the very same AP and honors classes at Paxson and Stanton, that are already being offered by their neighborhood schools. In this regard, Paxson and Stanton are not operating as true magnet schools for these 2000 students, since they are not offering anything different that what these students can already get from their neighborhood schools.

I think that there are 15 non magnet high schools in Duval. So, think of the overall impact this plan would have on these 15 schools. a) the worst 100-110 student from each of these schools would be pulled out, to attend Paxson where they can receive the special help they need, without holding back other students. B) In addition, each of these other 15 schools would be getting back about 130 AB and Honors students that are currently attending Paxson or Stanton. The end result is that the overall quality of each of these 15 schools would be immediately be improved. 100 bad students out, and 130 good students (along with their highly involved parents) back in.

I doubt that most families like having to send their children all the way to Paxson or Stanton. But they do it, because they feel that the better education is worth the trouble. I think that if we can execute the above plan, it would immediately improve each of these neighborhood schools enough, so that most parents would gladly send their children to the school just down the road.

This wouldn't cost much more than our current system, because it still only involves 2 magnet schools. It would give us one true IB magnet school, which could offer 400 additional slots to our best students throughout the County. It would address our most challenged students, while at the same time pulling them out of the current schools, where they may currently be holding back or acting as a bad influence to other students. And it would greatly improve each of the our current 15 non magnet schools, through the deduction of 100 'bad' students, and the addition of 130 'good' students.

Last edited by JaxBlueMan; 06-08-2012 at 04:44 PM..
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Old 06-08-2012, 04:34 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 21,379,006 times
Reputation: 6793
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsu813 View Post
Thank you for the unread, uninformed senior citizen's report on the Riverside Arts Market, Downtown Jax, and county demographic trends.

It is interesting reading.
Don't make me older than I am. I won't be an official "senior" until later this year .

One advantage of being older is I have traveled - a whole lot - over the course of about 4 decades. I have seen arts and food markets all over the US - indeed all over the world (in places ranging from Osaka to Paris). Now I can't in all honesty compare JAX to Osaka or Paris - but I can compare it - for example - to a city like Ann Arbor (which has one of the best arts fairs in the country). Or San Jose CA - which has an excellent weekly farmers' market (ditto with farmers' markets in places ranging from Guilford Ct. to Beverly Hills to small towns in Michigan suburbs near Detroit). Or even Gainesville - which has a pretty nice arts market and more than one weekly farmers' market - the only one I've been to is pretty good). Or Tallahassee - which has a nice little weekly farmers' market.

FWIW - I didn't care for the main market in Charleston either (was in Charleston a few months ago). But Charleston is a very tourist oriented city - and the market is very tourist-centric.

To paraphrase a line from Crocodile Dundee - when I go to certain markets - I say "Now That's A Market". No similar reaction to the RAM. I recall someone here complaining about the lack of organic produce at the RAM. I'm not wed to organic produce like that poster. OTOH - IIRC - one of the larger food vendors at RAM was selling produce out of the kind of boxes any supermarket gets. The only difference is the produce at RAM is spending a fair amount of time out in the heat/sun.

Note that I will be spending my "senior birthday" in Stockholm - and exploring markets I've never seen before.

So what do you like about RAM? What do *you* buy there?

BTW - I am beginning to think that the financial problems JAX is having are perhaps more serious than what we're reading in the paper and/or that the people running JAX are simply incompetent. I base my suspicions on bond holdings. I own City of JAX revenue bonds yielding 5.25% that have been callable for the last 3 years. But they haven't been called (even though current interest rates on a bond like this would be in the 3-3.5% range - general rule of thumb is you get called if current yields are more than 100 bp lower than the yield on the bond you're owning). The State of Florida is calling all of its 4.5% or higher coupon bonds as fast as it can. Heck - even the small City of Sebring FL has pre-refunded some 5% bonds I own - and will be calling them next year (at the first possible call). Robyn
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Old 06-08-2012, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Ponte Vedra Beach FL
14,617 posts, read 21,379,006 times
Reputation: 6793
Quote:
Originally Posted by JaxBlueMan View Post
I know that in today's economic climate, it's tough to try to sell any tax increase. But, regarding the DCPS system, I think I have an idea that wouldn't cost too much, and could start us down the right path.

#1. Take all of the 1200 total IB students that are currently attending Paxson and Stanton High Schools, and move them all to one of these two schools. Let's just use Stanton for arguments sake. Stanton would then become a 100% IB school. No other students other than those qualified for the IB program. Since Stanton has a capacity of 1600 total students, this would mean we have opened up an additional 400 IB slots for our best students throughout the County. That's a plus. Maybe these additional 400 top slots would encourage some of the more affluent households to stay in Duval, rather than moving out to St. Johns.

#2. Take Paxson, and turn it into just the opposite. A school for the 1600 most challenged students throughout the County. I believe that magnet schools should be just as concerned with our bottom performing students, as they are with our top students. If we ignore these students, I think it's a 'penny wise pound foolish' philosophy. We can pay a little more to educate them today, or we can pay for them over the next 40 years, in the form of government support programs.

#3. Take the 2000 total non IB students that are currently attending Paxson and Stanton, and push them back into their neighboorhood schools. These 2000 students shouldn't even be allowed to attend Paxon or Stanton in the first place, as they are taking the very same AP and honors classes at Paxson and Stanton, that are already being offered by their neighborhood schools. In this regard, Paxson and Stanton are not operating as true magnet schools for these 2000 students, since they are not offering anything different that what these students can already get from their neighborhood schools.

I think that there are 15 non magnet high schools in Duval. So, think of the overall impact this plan would have on these 15 schools. a) the worst 100-110 student from each of these schools would be pulled out, to attend Paxson where they can receive the special help they need, without holding back other students. B) In addition, each of these other 15 schools would be getting back about 130 AB and Honors students that are currently attending Paxson or Stanton. The end result is that the overall quality of each of these 15 schools would be immediately be improved. 100 bad students out, and 130 good students (along with their highly involved parents) back in.

I doubt that most families like having to send their children all the way to Paxson or Stanton. But they do it, because they feel that the better education is worth the trouble. I think that if we can execute the above plan, it would immediately improve each of these neighborhood schools enough, so that most parents would gladly send their children to the school just down the road.

This wouldn't cost much more than our current system, because it still only involves 2 magnet schools. It would give us one true IB magnet school, which could offer 400 additional slots to our best students throughout the County. It would address our most challenged students, while at the same time pulling them out of the current schools, where they may currently be holding back or acting as a bad influence to other students. And it would greatly improve each of the our current 15 non magnet schools, through the deduction of 100 'bad' students, and the addition of 130 'good' students.
Interesting idea - I'll have to think about it. But have a few thoughts off the top of my head.

A couple of objections I can see it getting. First - there are objections to magnet schools in general. Basically from minority groups (mostly black in JAX) who think that magnet schools discriminate against them and get a disproportionate amount of resources that should be directed to their kids' schools. Second - you'll get objections from "urban homesteading types" - who are always touting the virtues of living in various parts of the city because one can attend a magnet school that is local regardless of how good a student you are.

At least at the high academic end - it sounds like what I've seen in the NE - schools like the Bronx High School of Science - Boston Latin - etc. - which have (or at least used to have) entirely merit based admissions.

At the other end though - instead of saying you're too stupid to go a regular school - what about technical/vocational schools? When I was in high school (albeit a long time ago) - we had everything from students who were taking lots of AP courses to students who were taking a technical/vocational path. I went to a very big high school - almost 2500 students. But it was in a NJ suburb - and it wouldn't have have been cost-efficient to have different types of high schools for different types of students. Probably makes sense in a more urban area.

I think these days - there are a fair number of jobs for technical/vocational students. But they have to learn stuff like basic algebra - how to work with computerized equipment - etc. - even to be an A/C tech or work in a contemporary factory. I remember that in my high school - we had "shop" classes - home ec classes as well. Instead of labeling a school as a "school for dunces" - make it sound like a path to somewhere. And if the student/school system recognized at the start of high school that a particular child was never going to be real college material - the child could spend 4 years learning trades(s) - the skills necessary for trades - etc. - and not wind up going to one of those ridiculous colleges where they have to rack up a lot of debt to learn useful stuff - at least some of which could have been learned in high school.

Note that JAX already has schools for kids who are profoundly messed up (I have a friend who teaches in one). The kind of kids who will never even be able to work as baggers at Publix - they'll be lucky if they ever get out of diapers. IIRC - the public schools in JAX will keep this kind of kid in school until he/she is perhaps 21 or so. I'm not talking about kids like that - and I don't think you are either. Robyn
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Old 06-08-2012, 06:25 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,345,225 times
Reputation: 198
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsu813 View Post
From page 2 of his discussion thread on, it's people making "uniformed" suggestions off the top of their head.

Good golly miss molly.
I like to put on my old little league uniform , and then make suggestions about having a mlb in Jacksonville off the top of my head.
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Old 06-08-2012, 07:20 PM
 
Location: On the banks of the St Johns River
3,863 posts, read 9,461,932 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsu813 View Post
From page 2 of his discussion thread on, it's people making uniformed suggestions off the top of their head.
Good golly miss molly.
My favorite suggestion was the one of setting off a small Man Portable/Backpack Mk-54 SADM (.5-1KT)in Hemming Plaza and starting over somewhere else with the re-development of the downtown Jax urban area. (probably Baymeadows and 9A/295)
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:12 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville, FL
2,740 posts, read 5,476,740 times
Reputation: 753
JAX might not have the cash to call them or maybe asleep at the wheel like with the new courthouse
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Old 06-08-2012, 08:14 PM
 
Location: Jacksonville FL
336 posts, read 448,091 times
Reputation: 157
Quote:
Originally Posted by robyn55 View Post
interesting idea - i'll have to think about it. But have a few thoughts off the top of my head.

A couple of objections i can see it getting. First - there are objections to magnet schools in general. Basically from minority groups (mostly black in jax) who think that magnet schools discriminate against them and get a disproportionate amount of resources that should be directed to their kids' schools. Second - you'll get objections from "urban homesteading types" - who are always touting the virtues of living in various parts of the city because one can attend a magnet school that is local regardless of how good a student you are.

Yes, but we already have two magnet schools downtown, although in their current format they aren't true magnet, unless you happen to be an ib student. I'm just suggesting a better use of the same two that we already have.

Even under today's magnet format, you can't attend a magnet school unless you are ib, which is totally merit based, or you are lucky enough to win the lottery. (active military or living in the magnet school district also, but those don't amount to many students.)

and i don't think that most families do feel that they can attend a good magnet school regardless of where they live in the county. That's why many of them are moving to st. John's and would never consider duval.


At least at the high academic end - it sounds like what i've seen in the ne - schools like the bronx high school of science - boston latin - etc. - which have (or at least used to have) entirely merit based admissions.

Yes, that is what i suggest. One school, that is 100% ib, and where all admissions are merit based only. No lottery.

At the other end though - instead of saying you're too stupid to go a regular school - what about technical/vocational schools? When i was in high school (albeit a long time ago) - we had everything from students who were taking lots of ap courses to students who were taking a technical/vocational path. I went to a very big high school - almost 2500 students. But it was in a nj suburb - and it wouldn't have have been cost-efficient to have different types of high schools for different types of students. Probably makes sense in a more urban area.

We have a few technical magnet schools now. I don't know how many students that they actually serve. But, although i understand the point about not wanting to label a student as 'dumb' in the end i think we do them more harm by passing them along, then we do by meeting the issue head on, and dealing with the reality of the situation. In some cases, these might be intelligent kids that just need more attention, or some firm guidance.

I think these days - there are a fair number of jobs for technical/vocational students. But they have to learn stuff like basic algebra - how to work with computerized equipment - etc. - even to be an a/c tech or work in a contemporary factory. I remember that in my high school - we had "shop" classes - home ec classes as well. Instead of labeling a school as a "school for dunces" - make it sound like a path to somewhere. And if the student/school system recognized at the start of high school that a particular child was never going to be real college material - the child could spend 4 years learning trades(s) - the skills necessary for trades - etc. - and not wind up going to one of those ridiculous colleges where they have to rack up a lot of debt to learn useful stuff - at least some of which could have been learned in high school.

That would be fine with me. The main point is that we don't continue to just pass these kids along, without dealing with the reality. Whether it's tech schools, or academic schools with more discipline, we need to consider different approaches. It does these kids no good to leave them in a failing situation, and it does their classmates no good to have them holding everyone else back.

Note that jax already has schools for kids who are profoundly messed up (i have a friend who teaches in one). The kind of kids who will never even be able to work as baggers at publix - they'll be lucky if they ever get out of diapers. Iirc - the public schools in jax will keep this kind of kid in school until he/she is perhaps 21 or so. I'm not talking about kids like that - and i don't think you are either. Robyn
correct, i'm not referring to these kids.
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Old 06-09-2012, 03:08 PM
 
35 posts, read 112,219 times
Reputation: 37
An Ikea would be nice, love that store
downtown nightlife
Heck, downtown daylife
downtown revitalization
more independent dining options
more independent businesses/coffee shops
restaurants that stay open past midnight (Whenever I'm visiting Atlanta, I always loved dining late. I barely have that option here)
less ignorance/racism (only really applicable to certain areas)
less crime (only really applicable to certain areas)
better public transportation
less crazy gator fans (...that did not even attend the university, go figure? derp.)
better/more music acts coming to town
More emphasis on education k-12 and university

Take your pick...
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Old 06-09-2012, 06:10 PM
 
530 posts, read 1,345,225 times
Reputation: 198
an Ikea? .......are you just playing the what doesn't fit in this group game?
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Old 06-11-2012, 08:38 PM
 
Location: International Spacestation
5,185 posts, read 7,524,110 times
Reputation: 1415
A skyway station in Riverside, Springfield & sports complex. Id move back to Duval if that was to happen!
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