Growth in black population (St. Augustine: home, safe neighborhoods, school)
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You are right, but this is true about most diverse cities, not just Jacksonville, because whether we believe it or not we still have some neanderthals living among us. So yes, it is alive but for a city with a 35% black population I would say that people here get along reasonably well.
I was responding to this comment:
"racism from a normal professional white American citizen is virtually gone."
I was not making a comment on how well the races in get along Jacksonville, necessarily. Also, I was speaking about other races, too. I hear negative comments about the fact that there are signs in Spanish in our country. I've travelled in Europe, and I was grateful that there were signs in English, especially at the ATMs!
I think people are more prejudice than racist here, or anywhere for that matter. Most jacksonvilleians don't dislike someone based soley on their race, but more about their apperance and how they carry themselves. If you dress like a hood rat and walk into certain parts of town, or are the epitome of a whiteboy and go into mostly all black neighborhoods, yeah a little pre-judgement might be cast or words spoken because the locals might be scared or worried about what your intent is, but I dont think it's to the level of racial slurs, hateful remarks. People misuse the term racist way too much, racist implies hatred based soley on race. Most White people are weary of thugs, not "blacks" But who knows, I live in the smaller liberal, mixed up core of the city (not a fan of the burbs) so I might be totally disconnected from other people's reality.
Actually, to be precise. the OED definition of a racist is one who seeks to stir up antagonism between between the races. Unfortunately there is an element in Jacksonville who do just that to try to keep it alive. They range from a black Times Union writer Tonya Weatherbee, who cannot write an article without bringing race into it and some local politicians. We're not going to get anywhere while some whites won't vote for a candidate because they're black. On the other side you have blacks who vote for the likes of Denise Lee and Corrine Brown just because they're black.
Most of Jacksonville's blacks live on the North & West sides of town. You'll find very few black folk on the Southside unless it's Springfield or Arlington. Other than that, I live in a black area of Northside and it doesn't bother me. I can go to the Southside and blend in just fine.
It seems as though most african americans are in the heart of Jacksonville and not smaller areas like St. Johns. Why does anyone think that is? My family is African American and we are thinking of relocating to FLorida. St Johns has the great schools but such a small number of african american children/families. I do not want my children to be such a minority at the schools or in their neighborhoods. Any suggestions? it seems that the larger populations of AA's in Jacksonville in certain areas have not so good school ratings. I am BIG on education. Any suggestions would help on where in Jacksonville to move to. Thanks
NIKKI
Ok, as any of the moderators will tell you, I speak what's on my mind. So what I'm going to say may offend some of you, but I say it based on the experience I have had personally as an employer in this area for years. You are correct that most AA's are concentrated in the heart of Jacksonville, or really what is considered the Northside, and that is because they typical Jacksonville AA cannot afford the communities where the education levels tend to be better.
That's not a racist comment, that's just a fact. I belive the reason is twofold....One, this used to be a "good ol' boy" network and if you weren't in the network, you didn't get ahead. But in addition to that, J'ville has never had the well educated black middle upper class communities like you would find in Columbus, Ohio, or the racially integrated communities like in Minneapolis, MN. There seems to be an underlying current among local AA's that becoming educated, and putting things like family, jobs, the community and so on first means you are not "down with ya brothas" or whatever. It's an attitude that is self defeating as well as self propagating, and it's one that causes them to hold themselves back.
I live in the 32225 area code...and I live among great neighbors who all get along. We cook out together, drink beer together, borrow each others lawn equipment, etc. I am white, one is black and the other Peurto Rican. That's pretty diversified for being in only a 1 sq. acre area if you ask me. They are all really good people who all care about the same things. You would be welcome here. As for good schools....that's another topic for another thread....I personally choose to send my children to private schools at Jax Beach and the Intracoastal West area. I will sell everything I own down to the shirt on my back to keep my kids out of the public school system. You want my opinion on public schools you better start a fresh thread and get ready for an earful on that topic.
If you can budget private schools into your finances, that opens up a world of great locations you can choose from here. We'd be glad to have you in our neighborhood.
It seems as though most african americans are in the heart of Jacksonville and not smaller areas like St. Johns. Why does anyone think that is? My family is African American and we are thinking of relocating to FLorida. St Johns has the great schools but such a small number of african american children/families. I do not want my children to be such a minority at the schools or in their neighborhoods. Any suggestions? it seems that the larger populations of AA's in Jacksonville in certain areas have not so good school ratings. I am BIG on education. Any suggestions would help on where in Jacksonville to move to. Thanks
NIKKI
Hello Nikki, I too have the same concerns. We're currently in CA and thinking of relocating to the Jacksonville, FL area. Have you found a solution to your post?
We have some extremely nice African Americans that live in our apt complex here on the southern end of Jax......close to intersection of Baymeadows/Southside Blvds.
I don't think it is that bad here. There is plenty of room for improvement, like most American cities, but it's not as bad as some people will have you believe.
Most of these comments are racist against whites - but what else is new. I live in Atlanta and have experienced black racism on Marta, from black government officials and while in my car.
I can't wait to get out of what black mayor Nagin calls a 'chocolate town' (his words, not mine) that has a racial bias for blacks over whites.
I'm moving out of ATL to St Aug. to live in a more european-american city and look forward to leaving the real racism I've experienced. I did not expect it when I first moved here but the chip on the shoulder is real for too many (certainly not all).
I'm tired of the racist comments about whites and that because a city has a lot of whites, that that by definition, is white racism.
One thing I see that has happened in Jax. is that some public housing neighborhoods were closed or rebuilt and the number of units were decreased when they were rebuilt in the same location. A number of these people were relocated to other areas, mostly on the northside or other areas designated for them. Some are young people who are single parents get into public housing, and bring in their boyfriends not all but some are trouble and they bring it to the area. Landlords want the money so they have in the past put up with this behavior for the money. Habijax homes were also built in these areas. The white population scattered from the northside starting in the 60's Harborview, sherwood the soutle, lem turner dunn ave areas. These were areas that were populated by white home owners. Most of these area are now mostly populated by black or others races. The white population scattered to St. Johns county, southside and other areas. My suggestion to anyone moving to Jax. Our leaders have redefined jax., through redistricting. My zip code was changed at least three times since living in jax. in 1968. (32209, 32208 , 32205 and now it's 32219). Why is this? If I were to relocate in Jacksonville, I would 1st consider location, good schools, for resale reasons and then find the right home. I purchased a home some time back in the mid $200,000.00. I later found the schools were terrible the location is not the best night life none. Every day I had to drive my sons out of our area to get to good schools. Last son graduated last school year. Our public officials do nothing to better areas that are in trouble of becoming high crime areas. Find the best area that has what you need is close by and you don't have to drive hundreds of miles a years so that your kids can just walk or ride the school bus.
We have some extremely nice African Americans that live in our apt complex here on the southern end of Jax......close to intersection of Baymeadows/Southside Blvds.
"Why do we have to be African American? Why can't we be just people the other day my son said why is that if you're walking down the street and you see someone with a dog you say nice dog or cute dog not nice white dog, or white and brown dog, we're people same species. Why can't brown people be nice and well behaved. why is this is spoke of. Were you surprised the black or brown people were nice. I live by some European White Americans and they are extremely loud and keep an nasty yard. I have had to complain number of time to the city just to get them cut their yard and pick up the trash. But when I reported them I didn't identify thier race, just my concern of them with their property. I live on the northside. In a home that I am buying for $230,000.00."
It's hard to compare the 2 counties apples to apples because there are some important differences, the first of which being their populations.
St. John's county, even with the "boom" of the last few years, hasn't reached a population of 200,000 yet. Duval county is well over 800,000+, or 1,000,000+ if you include the unincorporated parts (the Beaches, etc.).
St. John's has traditionally been a heavy tourist and retirement location, while Duval has been a medium-sized working Southern city. African Americans have populated both counties, but in smaller numbers in St. John's, understandably. Retirees that have relocated to St. John's over the decades probably weigh more towards white, I would imagine, and still make up a good percentage of the population today. The topic of "white flight" has also been brought up regarding the current young family influx into St. John's County .
St. Augustine has been a regular part of my life since I was a kid in the 70's, and I lived there full-time for a few years as an adult before moving to Jacksonville. It has seemed to me to be more segregated in St. Augustine. There are traditional African American enclaves in St. Aug, but those locations are not going to get you the schools you desire .
I think you can go either way, really. You can find good schools in Duval county, there's just some inconsistency that is frustrating. For example, in Duval, you might find a neighborhood where your elementary and middle schools are A-rated, but your high school is terrible. Right now, St. John's county is flush with cash and still has a low population, so they don't face some of the same struggles the Duval county system faces and most of their schools rate well. St. John's also has a very small school system in comparison to Duval, so it may be more manageable due to sheer size.
A benefit of Duval county, school-wise, are the options. We have a Magnet program and we also have a large selection of private and parochial schools, so you don't have to be completely dependent on the regular public system.
Both counties have plenty of nice, family-friendly areas and beautiful neighborhoods, so it's a toss-up there .
Are there ant integrated neighborhoods in St. Augustine? If so, where are they?
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