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if he does choose to attend FSU, I think he'd do fine there. His biggest impediment is that almost 90% of the students are FLA residents and he's from NJ, so there may be a bit of an acclimation period he'll need to deal with, plus he'll have the usual issues all freshmen encounter.
We'll just have to wait and see how it plays out
I bet he'd do fine.
Our kid, the freshman at FSU, is a Colorado native who moved to northwest FL as a *high school junior* and survived.
At FSU, he has enjoyed meeting all the kids from the east coast--he actually even met a kid from Wisconsin who likes going to school in flipflops.
I bet he'd do fine.
Our kid, the freshman at FSU, is a Colorado native who moved to northwest FL as a *high school junior* and survived.
At FSU, he has enjoyed meeting all the kids from the east coast--he actually even met a kid from Wisconsin who likes going to school in flipflops.
I know what you mean, I've "ruined" him by bringing him to FLA, now all he wants is a place where he can wear his t shirts shorts and flip flops all the time
Both UF and FSU will suffer from the popular nationwide perception that all schools in Florida are football-dominated party schools, not serious academic institutions. UF is beginning to overcome that perception somewhat, but not yet FSU, IMO.
Much depends on what your son wants out of college, and where he might like to go afterwards. If he's ambitious for a career in high finance, the national mainstream media, marketing, or academia, many in the Northeast and Mid-west will discount a degree from FSU. It may not be fair or accurate, but the perception is there.
Recent studies show that approximately half of college learning comes from in-and out of-classroom interaction with other students, not from teachers. If the majority of a school's students doesn't take education and learning seriously, you son won't get nearly as much out of his college experience.
I went to a large public school (football/party school) in the northeast and a large, private school (academic focus...bascially no football team...but a damn good hockey team!) in the northeast and I think that these above comments all hold true. I have experienced first hand all of the above comments.
Well, I don't know much about UNF or UF, but I see a lot of misperceptions on this thread so here's what I think. I also went to one of those top tier, well known liberal arts colleges and have been very successful in my career. In my career, I have worked with and seen the perception of people who have graduated from all kinds of universities. Here are my thoughts.
1. Your alma mater doesn't matter 15 minutes after you have been hired.
2. Graduate schools don't look as much at your undergraduate university as much as they look at grades, GRE scores (or other test scores) and your undergraduate research / accomplishments. You will see a huge mix of universities and backgrounds if you go to graduate school. My brother went to a top 3 medical school and my best friend went to the top rated law school in the country. Both had a large mix of backgrounds in their graduating classes.
3. Most learning for your career happens on the job after you graduate. Quality of education doesn't really mean that much in the real world.
4. Going to FS, FSU or UNF WILL NOT be looked down upon by people in high finance, media, etc. etc. etc. in the Northeast, Midwest or anywhere else. Academia may be the one exception since academics are in their own world. If you look at the lists of these types of people who went to small state schools or never graduated from college at all, you will understand that it really just doesn't matter. I actually have a friend and FSU grad who is a media powerhouse in Washington DC and has won 12 Emmy's.
5. Where you go to school is more of a matter of personal choice. Business street smarts gets you much farther in life every time.
From all of this, I don’t think it really matters which school you pick unless you are a big sports fan.
not to be argumentative but I disagree with some of your comments
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX
1. Your alma mater doesn't matter 15 minutes after you have been hired.
but where you've gone to school will help them decide to contact you after they've read your resume, a kid from an IVY, Duke, Emory, and other top tier schools have an opening advantage, that doesn't mean that kids from other schools don't get recruited but a name brand does have an advantage in the beginning
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX
2. Graduate schools don't look as much at your undergraduate university as much as they look at grades, GRE scores (or other test scores) and your undergraduate research / accomplishments. You will see a huge mix of universities and backgrounds if you go to graduate school. My brother went to a top 3 medical school and my best friend went to the top rated law school in the country. Both had a large mix of backgrounds in their graduating classes.
I agree with this 100% I have advised my kid to go to decent but not top school, get high grades and then go to a top tier school for his grad school, that's where the payback will come, an strong undergrad from a school like FSU and a grad degree from Yale, Wharton, Northwestern, and schools like, I think are the ticket to getting into a good track in the corporate world. Then again he might become a very well educated construction worker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX
4. Going to FS, FSU or UNF WILL NOT be looked down upon by people in high finance, media, etc. etc. etc. in the Northeast, Midwest or anywhere else. Academia may be the one exception since academics are in their own world. If you look at the lists of these types of people who went to small state schools or never graduated from college at all, you will understand that it really just doesn't matter. I actually have a friend and FSU grad who is a media powerhouse in Washington DC and has won 12 Emmy's.
unfortunately people do have preconceived notions and a degree from UNC for example has a lot of credibility because their basketball team is nationally known, or a degree from Notre Dame is more valuable because of their history.
I agree, that schooling isn't the end all, in fact ( not bragging) I did not complete college and have done fairly well
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX
5. Where you go to school is more of a matter of personal choice. Business street smarts gets you much farther in life every time.
From all of this, I don’t think it really matters which school you pick unless you are a big sports fan.
again true, but you have to deal with HR people who do attach a lot of importance to where the degree came from so while there are many, many no
name schools where you could probably get a superior education, the name of the school you attend is part of the larger equation.
but where you've gone to school will help them decide to contact you after they've read your resume, a kid from an IVY, Duke, Emory, and other top tier schools have an opening advantage, that doesn't mean that kids from other schools don't get recruited but a name brand does have an advantage in the beginning
I still disagree. Not arguing, but speaking from personal experience. As someone who graduated from one of those schools, I can easily say that a good interviewer with a good personality has a much higher opening advantage. An introvert from an Ivey League school has a huge disadvantage to someone who went to a lesser known school and has a great personality.
I still disagree. Not arguing, but speaking from personal experience. As someone who graduated from one of those schools, I can easily say that a good interviewer with a good personality has a much higher opening advantage. An introvert from an Ivey League school has a huge disadvantage to someone who went to a lesser known school and has a great personality.
What you say is indeed true, but what I am getting at is that even before an interview a person from an Ivy type school will get a "look" just because that school is on the resume while a student from a lesser school wouldn't even be considered. I've seen how HR staffs classify candidates as to what "track" they belong on based on where the degree is from.
Certainly a brighter person who went to a lesser school could be a better candidate and that would come out in an interview, but he may never get that interview because he came from a lesser school. In addition many companies only visit certain schools for recruiting and that lesser school may not even be on that companies radar.
These are only variables of a much larger equation but it is reality and has to be factored into a decision of what school to attend.
Things are a lot different now than just a few years ago, these few years have produced the largest number of college students in history and any edge that can be gained needs to be considered.
Just to add a little bit more about school name recognition.
1) A school with a big name will probably get you an interview over someone who went to a lesser school....with equal abilities and accomplishments. True, if you jack the interview and have no personality...the school's name will not get you the job.
2) It is true that in most professions, once you are hired the degree and the name are thrown out the window in terms of your placement in the company and your responsibilities. You start from scratch and experience become essential to moving up the business later. But, I do want to say that, most companies like to have the employees from big name schools in order to get work. For instance, in engineering, 20 different companies can write a proposal for the same job, and the first thing they mention about their workforce is their degrees with the school name attached. A company wants that same "eye appeal" from the school name during the proposal review and selection that was also effective with the job application review.
What you say is indeed true, but what I am getting at is that even before an interview a person from an Ivy type school will get a "look" just because that school is on the resume while a student from a lesser school wouldn't even be considered. I've seen how HR staffs classify candidates as to what "track" they belong on based on where the degree is from.
Certainly a brighter person who went to a lesser school could be a better candidate and that would come out in an interview, but he may never get that interview because he came from a lesser school. In addition many companies only visit certain schools for recruiting and that lesser school may not even be on that companies radar.
These are only variables of a much larger equation but it is reality and has to be factored into a decision of what school to attend.
Things are a lot different now than just a few years ago, these few years have produced the largest number of college students in history and any edge that can be gained needs to be considered.
apvbguy is absolutely correct about this, and it's naive to think that "it doesn't really matter which school you pick unless you are a big sports fan." (If it were true, why would all the rich, street-smart entrepreneurs be trying to get their kids into the top schools? Status and bragging rights? Doubt it.) I know from personal experience that many of the best, blue-chip, prestigious companies (investment banks, top consumer marketing corporations, etc.) recruit at only a few select schools. If you aren't at one of them, you aren't going to get an entry level position at one of those companies (unless you're the CEO's son.)
Think about it: for every Tony Romo who came from nowhere, there are thousands of wannabees from the obscure schools who tried to walk on and didn't make it, or maybe didn't even get a chance to show what they had. Whether you're a NFL GM or a corporate hiring manager, you don't want to waste your time in the rough, hoping to find a diamond. The odds are better at the best schools. They've already done most of the weeding out for you. Unless you're Bill Gates or Steve Jobs (both of whom dropped out of very good colleges), a degree from a good school can only help you. Joe Montana and Tom Brady, the two best ever, both came from top schools.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David in JAX
1. Your alma mater doesn't matter 15 minutes after you have been hired.
2. Graduate schools don't look as much at your undergraduate university as much as they look at grades, GRE scores (or other test scores) and your undergraduate research / accomplishments. You will see a huge mix of universities and backgrounds if you go to graduate school. My brother went to a top 3 medical school and my best friend went to the top rated law school in the country. Both had a large mix of backgrounds in their graduating classes.
3. Most learning for your career happens on the job after you graduate. Quality of education doesn't really mean that much in the real world.
4. Going to FS, FSU or UNF WILL NOT be looked down upon by people in high finance, media, etc. etc. etc. in the Northeast, Midwest or anywhere else. Academia may be the one exception since academics are in their own world. If you look at the lists of these types of people who went to small state schools or never graduated from college at all, you will understand that it really just doesn't matter. I actually have a friend and FSU grad who is a media powerhouse in Washington DC and has won 12 Emmy's.
5. Where you go to school is more of a matter of personal choice. Business street smarts gets you much farther in life every time.
#1, 2, and 3 are mostly correct:
-- unless you perform, it doesn't matter what school you went to. But sometimes "all other things ARE pretty much equal," and hiring managers will lean toward someone with the better degree
-- a degree from a top school won't outweigh poor grades. again, you have to perform.
-- It's true that most learning happens on the job, after you graduate. The value of a really good undergraduate school is to help you learn to THINK, to help open your mind to ideas, possibilities, connections -- what successful entrepreneurs are good at -- so as to take advantage of the learning opportunities that jobs offer. Why is it that some people learn faster "on the job" than others?
#4 is pretty much untrue, in the sense that those schools won't help you make the resume cut, when compared to resumes from top schools. Sure, there are exceptions, people at the top levels of the finance, media, etc. who have made it. After all, this is America, not France, where you don't have any chance at all unless you went to one of the top schools. But for the majority of folks, coming from a top school is a big help.
#5 Business street smarts may be the most important factor in business success, and no school can teach that. But it's not the only factor, and if someone already has street smarts, why not take advantage of all that a good school can provide?
I think you are *all* correct to some degree.
I mean, look who made it into the White House.
I also think the definition of a successful career--and the strategies for achieving it--can be subjective.
If we are looking at success as making a lot of money in the corporate world, well, I know lots of men and women who did more than okay with a degree from midwestern schools--a couple of them have no degree at all. What they do have is ambition, smarts and strength of personality.
Having said that, I agree with apvbguy that competition is tougher now than when I was a girl.
A creative approach can make a difference.
Our older kid (CSU, grad school U of WI) is over in France making euros instead of dollars. This might not be everyone's cup of tea but it works for him.
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