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Robyn, you can always be counted on to chime on areas which you're not familiar with. One example, King Street district is one of the major hubs of the Riverside & Avondale historic district. It's in no way "north Riverside", and it's far, far past up & coming.
For anyone younger than 50, it has long since arrived.
As indicated in the article I linked.
Tacosman, please listen to Robin's advice. You two share the same strange uniformed perspective.
these are all opinions....everyone is welcome to their own. As for articles, those are of really no interest to me. I know what I see, and I know what I like. I could post dozens of articles on how Nocatee has 'arrived'(probably far more than are available on how that particular area of riverside has arrived), but that wouldn't mean I care to live there either.
The ideal neighborhood for me would be the best 1/4 residential area of Virginia Highlands where the houses average 1800-2200 sq ft. I've made that clear. So this idea that I want an HOA community is just not true.
Now do I have to come to terms with the fact that Jacksonville doesn't have anything close to that? Sure. And that's my problem and I'll have to deal with it. So given that, I'll have to pick between a lot of less than ideal choices.
A) Not everyone's opinion is equal. That is certain.
B) Nocatee pays a great deal for their advertising. Riverside & Avondale historic district hasn't paid a dime for their recognition in the London Financial Times, American Planning Association, Chicago Tribune, Southern Living, Sky, and many, many more.
For the final time (I promise), good luck in your search. And whatever you do, don't purchase a home in the single hottest, active, upwardly trending neighborhood in Jax.
A) Not everyone's opinion is equal. That is certain.
B) Nocatee pays a great deal for their advertising. Riverside & Avondale historic district hasn't paid a dime for their recognition in the London Financial Times, American Planning Association, Chicago Tribune, Southern Living, Sky, and many, many more.
For the final time (I promise), good luck in your search. And whatever you do, don't purchase a home in the single hottest, active, upwardly trending neighborhood in Jax.
well even better than opinions, however, are just the facts/data. And the reality is that the demo data for the riverside area as a whole just isn't all that appealing. Sure, one can make the argument that average resident income, housing value, etc are misleadingly lowered by dilapidated houses with essentially unemployed residents who shouldn't be counted, but if that actually makes a significant dent in the overall numbers one has to ask the question why there are so many dilapidated houses in the area? Either way isn't good- either there are a bunch of houses in the area that essentially need torn down and rebuilt, or there aren't and that isn't a reason for the low average housing values.
I will say that I didn't extensively tour the big riverside houses on the river. They go for 7 figures and I can't afford them. So I'm open to the possibility that living along that one street would be good(in fact Im guessing it would be). But that's out of my price range. I know a few streets away from the river I did tour and those areas were not nearly as nice.
well even better than opinions, however, are just the facts/data. And the reality is that the demo data for the riverside area as a whole just isn't all that appealing. Sure, one can make the argument that average resident income, housing value, etc are misleadingly lowered by dilapidated houses with essentially unemployed residents who shouldn't be counted, but if that actually makes a significant dent in the overall numbers one has to ask the question why there are so many dilapidated houses in the area? Either way isn't good- either there are a bunch of houses in the area that essentially need torn down and rebuilt, or there aren't and that isn't a reason for the low average housing values.
I will say that I didn't extensively tour the big riverside houses on the river. They go for 7 figures and I can't afford them. So I'm open to the possibility that living along that one street would be good(in fact Im guessing it would be). But that's out of my price range. I know a few streets away from the river I did tour and those areas were not nearly as nice.
One major factor in what you see in the area is RAP (Riverside Avondale Preservation). It has this totally non-progressive notion that anything that looks new is bad. And that it's better to do nothing than something that is historically incorrect. Regardless of cost.
My husband and I met a young quasi-professional couple - exactly the kind of people Riverside wants to attract - who bought one of the older houses in a "not nearly as nice" part of Riverside - and were renovating it (I actually met the husband on a national construction chat board). And I couldn't believe the hassles they were having. E.g., not being able to replace rotting inefficient old windows with new energy efficient ones because the style wasn't "historically correct". Having to reassure RAP that their windows/window coverings would "hide" their new IKEA kitchen from street view (I actually thought it was a great looking functional kitchen given the price point - but it was considered "out of character"). Not being allowed to replace the old decrepit porch floor with a great material like Trex. And being told that if they tore down the old tumbling down unsafe (and I do mean tumbling down unsafe - it was boarded up) "carriage house" in the back of the house - they couldn't replace the structure with anything!
I am sure these people finished up their job eventually - and they still live in their house. In zip code 32204. Where are the demographics are as follows:
But how many people other than dedicated renovators want to go through this (and I'll note that the couple we met were doing a lot of work on their house themselves - or with help from friends/family - when we met them - they were in their 20's - just starting out - and not particularly flush with cash/earnings)?
So what happens - more commonly - is that the older neighborhood residents - many of whom don't have a lot of money - or energy - shrug their shoulders and do nothing. RAP can tell you how to do things - but it can't mandate that you do anything.* So you wind up with a decent renovation here - a shack there - etc. I think if RAP stopped pretending that Riverside/Avondale has anything in common with places like Society Hill in Philadelphia - JAX would be better off.
This isn't the only couple we know in that not-so-nice not-so expensive part of the area who have renovated. There are 4 I can recall off the top of my head (in terms of having been in their houses - and having seen what they've done - people we know know I'm interested in this kind of stuff - so I get "house tours" if I want them ). And their houses tend to stand out like flowers among a bed of weeds.
BTW - I've also gone to many of the RAP "house tours" over the years. And seen many renovations. Most are definitely are in the "put the money where people will notice it category" - not in areas where people won't when we go to sell the house. Which is why I'm wary of buying renovated houses without doing a lot of tire-kicking. OTOH - I've volunteered on quite a few occasions over the years to work in Symphony Houses. There's the occasional renovation - like 11 East Forsyth downtown - but most Symphony Houses are new construction (including the Riverside condo Villariva - I think that's the name). And I've never been particularly impressed with the quality of most new construction here either. You can call me a housing snob - but there's no excuse IMO for having a $500k+ residence that has 19 cent electrical wall plates. Robyn
*If anyone looked at the video I linked about the parking problems near Kickbacks - well the area resident who was interviewed - who is kind of older and fatter and not very pretty and not apparently well educated - is more or less a typical long time area resident.
Robyn, you can always be counted on to chime on areas which you're not familiar with. One example, King Street district is one of the major hubs of the Riverside & Avondale historic district. It's in no way "north Riverside", and it's far, far past up & coming.
For anyone younger than 50, it has long since arrived.
As indicated in the article I linked.
Tacosman, please listen to Robin's advice. You two share the same strange uniformed perspective.
Why do you always say I'm not familiar with things? Being retired (personal injury lawyers) - my husband and I have a lot of time on our hands. And we have probably explored the metro area more than most people over the 18 years or so that we've been here. Not to mention that we've traveled extensively elsewhere (both domestically and outside the US).
I can tell you about playing golf or tennis throughout most of the metro area. Dining. Fun things to do (from the zoo up north to the Alligator Farm down south). Cultural stuff (shows and concerts). Museums (have been to most many times). Some sports stuff (I'm weak in that category but have gone to Suns games and a Florida/Georgia game and some UNF sports events too). Medical care. Shopping. Etc. Etc.
Also - we have money. And spend it. So I think I'm competent to judge things ranging from dining to house finishes. The only thing I will acknowledge is my husband and I are pushing 70 these days. So we're not really big into stuff 20-somethings might like (especially if they're the typical 20-something in JAX - basically lower middle class). OTOH - we get along fine with most younger upper middle class people (although our age differences usually result in our being more neighbors - not friends).
Anyway - I've always been honest about who I am - where I live - what I like - etc. I am not a lower middle class person with a lot of tats - or someone who enjoys being around people like that.
And you? What do you do - where do you live - and what are your personal preferences in terms of things (other than always being a cheerleader for various things in JAX many of which aren't worth cheerleading about). You would have more credibility if you were more discriminating IMO. Just because X is here and Y is there doesn't mean one is worth applauding - and the other not (or vice versa). Robyn
...I will say that I didn't extensively tour the big riverside houses on the river. They go for 7 figures and I can't afford them. So I'm open to the possibility that living along that one street would be good(in fact Im guessing it would be). But that's out of my price range. I know a few streets away from the river I did tour and those areas were not nearly as nice.
Just as an interesting FWIW - we could afford a big riverside house when we moved here in 1995. But - in 1995 - they didn't - for the most part - have sewers. I absolutely 100% ruled out any place anywhere without sewers. Perhaps those riverside places have sewers now. I know the lots we looked at on Roscoe Blvd. in Ponte Vedra that didn't have sewers then still don't have them.
You definitely do not want to have a house without a sewer hookup in most parts of Florida. Robyn
...The ideal neighborhood for me would be the best 1/4 residential area of Virginia Highlands...
My husband and I know that area because we have a niece who lives there (with her husband). And - based on our visits - I am pretty sure they are not in the top 25% (they're probably in the bottom 25% - they're both commercial photographers and one has been unemployed for about 5 years now). I think designing your "fantasy" neighborhood is harder than designing your fantasy football team
Quote:
Now do I have to come to terms with the fact that Jacksonville doesn't have anything close to that? Sure. And that's my problem and I'll have to deal with it. So given that, I'll have to pick between a lot of less than ideal choices.
Life is full of choices. To me - the most important things in terms of owning a house in Florida would be:
1) Relatively easy commuting (if working - like you are);
2) Ease of maintenance (we have a climate that can be harsh on lots of building materials);
3) Storm worthiness;
4) Convenience to amenities one uses/wants (ranging from shopping to doctors to gyms to golf courses to schools for people with children - etc. - everyone's personal "basket" will vary).
Have you tried looking at those side streets between San Jose Blvd and the river? Most houses are well kept in those areas. I don't know about the cost.
You might try looking around some of the neighborhoods off Southside Blvd, near the Deerwood area. I'm thinking of that area behind the Home Depot.
One issue is that manicured landscaping can be a real challenge in Florida, especially in areas that are wooded. You either need to be willing to devote lots of time in maintaining the landscape, or you need to hire a landscaping company. Hiring a landscaping company is expensive, as is replacing the sod every few years, etc. Many people just let it go rather than go through the trouble and expense. Even the wealthy parts of town have a difficult time keeping things looking manicured.
[quote=Robyn55;33476898]My husband and I know that area because we have a niece who lives there (with her husband). And - based on our visits - I am pretty sure they are not in the top 25% (they're probably in the bottom 25% -
No I understand what you are saying. I guess what I mean is I would be comfortable spending 600 to 700 k on a smallish house in a good residential area. You can find that in the best parts of va highlands. To find that in jville, it is tough.
Why do you always say I'm not familiar with things? Being retired (personal injury lawyers) - my husband and I have a lot of time on our hands. And we have probably explored the metro area more than most people over the 18 years or so that we've been here. Not to mention that we've traveled extensively elsewhere (both domestically and outside the US).
I can tell you about playing golf or tennis throughout most of the metro area. Dining. Fun things to do (from the zoo up north to the Alligator Farm down south). Cultural stuff (shows and concerts). Museums (have been to most many times). Some sports stuff (I'm weak in that category but have gone to Suns games and a Florida/Georgia game and some UNF sports events too). Medical care. Shopping. Etc. Etc.
Also - we have money. And spend it. So I think I'm competent to judge things ranging from dining to house finishes. The only thing I will acknowledge is my husband and I are pushing 70 these days. So we're not really big into stuff 20-somethings might like (especially if they're the typical 20-something in JAX - basically lower middle class). Robyn
I think this is my problem.....if I were married or had kids, I would have a much easier time finding a spot. Or if I were younger. But I'm in my 30s and have no kids....and I don't want to live around a ton of kids, but quite frankly I don't want to live around a bunch of people making 55k either....and I don't know where on jville I can avoid both
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). And their houses tend to stand out like flowers among a bed of weeds.
