Pool in Nocatee---To Screen or Not to Screen (Miami: for sale, houses)

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by Florida2014

We are a little further inland in Durbin and I've been outside nearly every evening with no bug spray on and have not noticed a problem. We back to a pond too, which I would think would make the bugs a bit worse but really have been pleasantly surprised at the lack of bugs. Of course, it hasn't rained a ton and we're just now creeping into summer so that could all change in a month.

You may be one of those lucky folks who don't attract bugs. Most of us here aren't as fortunate. Also - the rainy season hasn't started yet. The rainy season usually ---> mosquitoes and the like. Especially at the start of the season - when the dormant mosquito eggs hatch. Perhaps we'll have fewer bugs than usual this year because we had a cool winter. But bug free in the summer is just about impossible anywhere in Florida.

FWIW - most (perhaps all) of us in SJC are in the Anastasia Mosquito Control District:

Home

Members of the Board are elected. If our elected officials do their job - it can make our lives more pleasant (although eliminating 100% of the bugs is pretty much an impossible goal). Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

My husband and son are there right now...they were out last night near Nocatee and were getting swarmed by some "little bugs" (tiny ones I think). Ofcourse they did not have bug spray on (is it a must in the evening for outdoor)?

What kind of bugs would these be?

If they were biting - they're probably a variety of "no-see-ums":

biting midges, no-see-ums, Culicoides spp.

If I were planning to be outside at any time of day when/where bugs were biting - I'd use bug spray. Mostly because I get ugly red spots where I've been bitten. And - because if there's a biting bug within 100 miles - it's going to bite me (I got eaten alive one night while dining outside at a restaurant in Los Angeles - a place that's not supposed to have bugs ).

OTOH - some people may be concerned about getting various rare but not so wonderful diseases of a result of bites from insects like mosquitoes:

Mosquito-borne and Other Insect-borne Diseases | Florida Department of Health

Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by famrelo

We had a pool contractor (who was referred to us by work colleagues) come out the other day. He mentioned that an alternative to the screen is a misting device - not sure what it does - scare the rodents away? Not sure on the effectiveness....Also, he did say that many people are moving away from the screens for aesthetic reasons. (Perhaps he thought we were low end buyers as well )

We also have a patio that we are going to enclose. Is it better to do the screen with a foot rail or without? Is no-see-um mesh necessary in PVB? It seems so much darker than standard mesh.

I've never heard of no-see-um mesh. We have plain fine mesh screens - and they do the job.

IMO - there's nothing aesthetic about swatting away bugs or coming inside covered with bug bites.

Also - I think a screened enclosure is probably more likely to accomplish the job of keeping bugs away than a misting system. And I personally wouldn't want anything in my yard that is constantly putting insecticides into the air:

Mosquito Misting Systems | Mosquito Control | US EPA

Although someone else's mileage may vary.

An additional consideration when it comes to pools is that if you don't use a screen - you'll need fencing that meets statutory requirements (and any applicable ARB requirements as well):

Statutes & Constitution :View Statutes : Online Sunshine

The kind of fencing our ARB requires isn't particularly cheap - so - depending on the nature of the enclosure (for example - will a screen be one or two stories high) - one may not wind up saving all that much money by going with a fence. And a pool that's open will probably require more continuing maintenance (for example - in terms of keeping out leaf debris and similar).

OTOH - a screen enclosure can - depending on design - accumulate various amounts of leaf debris and similar on top. So it's going to need maintenance/cleaning too.

Another consideration is insurance. Many homeowners' policies don't cover damage to/destruction of things like screen enclosures or fences (or provide only limited coverage). And a screen enclosure is more likely to get blown away in a storm than a fence. OTOH - a fence is more easily deranged/damaged/destroyed by rising water/flood. And fences aren't covered by a standard FEMA flood insurance policy (neither are pools and pool enclosures).

Finally - the whole "screen" versus "fence" thing is - for many homeowners - simply a money/budget issue:

Tony Downs planned to put a screen enclosure around his new swimming pool until the four cost estimates came in.

The price tags to screen his large backyard pool and deck ranged from about $17,000 to more than $20,000 -- close to 25 percent of the pool's cost. "I would pay it if I thought it was worth it," Downs says. "But I decided I didn't want a pool enclosure anymore. I don't want to be sitting by my pool looking at the screen enclosure, thinking about how much I paid for it. I couldn't enjoy my pool."

Today's pool owners open up on ideas about screen enclosures - Orlando Sentinel

But you're just talking about original installation costs when it comes to this issue. If I were building a pool - I'd also take into account ways to save on the continuing maintenance costs. Some - like variable speed pumps - solar panels for heating - whatever - may cost more up front - but save lots of $$$ down the road. Robyn

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

...You are in a different stage of life than the young FAMILIES with children moving here, who may have questions that seem naive to you, but are good questions and we all want to share information. Thank you.

Yes - I am at a different stage of life. And have considerable experience under my belt living in Florida. Which is why I roll my eyes at brokers telling people from elsewhere that "no screens" is part of a "new trend" or a matter of "aesthetics". Unless the trend being discussed is trying to cut corners and save $$$. Like fsquid said:

I don't think it the new "trend", I just think people are cutting that part out to get the pool they want. Those enclosures are not cheap.

Let's face it - brokers are trying to make people feel good about not doing something that most pool owners in Florida have done for decades. By telling them that they're trendy as opposed to something less flattering.

There's a lot that's not fun about building in Florida - things that most people do (and often are required to do) for weather/climate reasons - safety reasons - etc. But - when it comes to the non-fun things - like building for wind mitigation - average builders in Florida are going to do the minimum they can get away with under code - because the average buyer usually isn't interested in paying more than minimum for "non-sexy" stuff. Robyn

P.S. My husband and I are pretty serious about the "non-fun" stuff. When we moved here from south Florida - we took a course on building an energy efficient house in these parts. And were surprised to find out how things here are very different than they are even in south Florida. It was a very useful course - and led us to do/not do certain things when we built.

[snuffybear]

Great - then say it that way - not with snobby attitude. Then your posts are appreciated and respected.

[famrelo]

Originally Posted by mspink

We went with no foot rail, the deciding factor being that our dog is no longer a puppy and is unlikely to go blasting through the screen. No lie, we actually had that discussion. It's personal preference, really. We did decide on no-see-um screen, because they feast on my husband. They either leave me alone or I'm not bothered by them, so I would have been OK with regular screen, but I'd be out there alone a lot. Again, that comes down to your family's needs.

Thanks mspink. Perhaps we should wait til we've lived here a bit longer to find out how much the no-see-ums like us. I would probably just go with that screen except I'm concerned about it being too dark.

[famrelo]

Originally Posted by ssclulow

famrelo: The misting system you mentioned is an insecticide misting system. You can find info online by Google searching.

Thanks ssclulow. Wow people actually install those?! Given, I try to be as green as possible and cringe at the necessity of all the chemicals we already have to expose our kids to. I get that pest control is a necessity in this area.....Screen it is

[SaintCabbage]

Part of the debate on aesthetics is how it's installed and the application in which it's used. I find the screen enclosures that are actually bigger and extend out way past the pool with an extended patio, actually look better than the small ones that are only a foot or two past the edge of the pool because there is no additional outside living space.

[mspink]

Originally Posted by famrelo

Thanks mspink. Perhaps we should wait til we've lived here a bit longer to find out how much the no-see-ums like us. I would probably just go with that screen except I'm concerned about it being too dark.

Honestly, it doesn't make that much difference, IMO. Our neighbors have standard screen, and I can hardly see a difference in how much light gets through from our tight weave.

[Robyn55]

Originally Posted by snuffybear

Great - then say it that way - not with snobby attitude. Then your posts are appreciated and respected.

Listen - my attitude is most people (regardless of any demographic specifics) are ill informed in most areas - if not downright stupid. Especially when it comes to internet talk. My favorite area in terms of being ill informed/stupid is when average lay people talk about doctors/medicine. Having done a bunch of medical legal work - I know how much I *don't* know - which is about 99% of most medical stuff outside of any personal issues (and - with personal issues - no matter how much research I do - I perhaps know about 25% of what the average doctor knows).

When it comes to something like construction - I see pretty close to the ignorance I've seen when talking about medical stuff - but it's not anywhere near as dangerous. Because you're only talking about "stuff" - not your health or your life.

Still - the "stuff" - a house - is pretty much the single most expensive thing a person will buy in his/her lifetime. So it pays to study a little (and not IMO on most internet chat boards). Especially because most budgets are finite - and you want to spend your budget - whatever it is - on things that matter.

For example - when we first moved here - most of the builders said we absolutely had to have double pane windows. And - when we went to this energy efficiency class (a single day 8 hour course for contractors/owners/everyone sponsored by a local power company - think it was about $20/head for people not taking it for continuing education credit) - the teacher (and the materials) said it would take us about 50-100 years to recoup the extra costs of those windows in terms of energy savings. And a couple of local landlords said double pane windows were a total PITA here.

Well - when we rented our brand new house in Sawgrass - it had double pane windows. And not only did we have have high power costs - but many of those windows popped their seals within 6 months of moving in and were almost perpetually fogged over. FWIW - this is another reason to rent in a new area. To learn about one's surroundings and what works/doesn't work in them.

BTW - I don't know what the deal is these days with new construction and storm windows/doors/etc. in various parts of SJC - Duval County - or Nassau County. What a builder is required to do - and where. Note that - in general - if a builder has to give you some kind of window protection - there will be 3 ways to do it. Storm impact windows - shutters - or a bunch of pieces of plywood that you can screw over your window openings. With most mass builders - if you're supposed to get anything - you'll get the sheets of plywood.

Now I don't care if you're 35 or 75 - getting up on a ladder and screwing sheets of plywood onto your windows isn't a great deal of fun even if you can do it. We might not get a major storm here for the next 100 years - or we might have 2 next year. You never know. We've had 2 - probably 3 - mandatory evacuations due to hurricane threats since we moved here. And it's nice to be able to get a house "storm-ready" fast and get the heck out of Dodge. Without getting up on a ladder and nailing plywood over windows. Especially if you call yourself "Snuffybear" (I get this mental image of Pooh Bear up there on a ladder and being distracted by honey in bees' nests ).

I think all people who move to Florida should learn what it will take for them to enjoy their Florida house 100% - thick or thin. Robyn