Mass Transit Crystal Ball (Jacksonville, Miami: mover, house, living)

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

Okay, so we scrap all mass transit in Jacksonville. We add some 50,000 new cars to our roads every day. We that rode transit will have the new commuters sign a contract to pave and re-pave every street as the need comes up. No federal, no state, no toll money, just good old private style profit and loss. Since new highways can cost $100 Million a mile, and resurface isn't far behind. With 1,900 miles of State road alone in Duval, just the bill for that would be over some $100,000+ dollars. Perhaps you should sign THAT contract, you pay for the roads, and we'll ride our bikes... while the trains and buses rot in a field.

Ocklawaha

you lost me here, what does this have to do with what I sad?

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

Okay, so we scrap all mass transit in Jacksonville. We add some 50,000 new cars to our roads every day. We that rode transit will have the new commuters sign a contract to pave and re-pave every street as the need comes up. No federal, no state, no toll money, just good old private style profit and loss. Since new highways can cost $100 Million a mile, and resurface isn't far behind. With 1,900 miles of State road alone in Duval, just the bill for that would be over some $100,000+ dollars. Perhaps you should sign THAT contract, you pay for the roads, and we'll ride our bikes... while the trains and buses rot in a field.

Ocklawaha

I'll say it again s l o w l y so you'll grasp what I said, I am not against mass transit, just show me how it is to be funded, then you'll have a complete plan for mass transit in JAX, until you can provide where the dollars will come from you only have a dream.

And your numbers are whacky at best

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

I'll say it again s l o w l y so you'll grasp what I said, I am not against mass transit, just show me how it is to be funded, then you'll have a complete plan for mass transit in JAX, until you can provide where the dollars will come from you only have a dream.

And your numbers are whacky at best

I am extremely interested (pro) mass transit. Why don't both of you guys post where you are getting your numbers from.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Wild Style

I am extremely interested (pro) mass transit. Why don't both of you guys post where you are getting your numbers from.

I get my numbers from living in NYC where mass transit is heavily subsidised from general taxes, taxes on utilities, diversion of motor vehicle taxes from road projects to mass transit and higher than necessary bridge and tunnel tolls that send the excess funds to mass transit. What is going on there is typical liberal redistribution of monies to fund inexpensive mass transit. Why do you think people are fleeing from high tax places like NY, NJ, CT, MASS?
one big reason is high taxes, now these xplants want to ruin JAX like they've ruined the northern cities.

I am all for mass transit that pays for itself, I am against duplicating what goes on in places like NYC

[Wild Style]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

I get my numbers from living in NYC where mass transit is heavily subsidised from general taxes, taxes on utilities, diversion of motor vehicle taxes from road projects to mass transit and higher than necessary bridge and tunnel tolls that send the excess funds to mass transit. What is going on there is typical liberal redistribution of monies to fund inexpensive mass transit. Why do you think people are fleeing from high tax places like NY, NJ, CT, MASS?
one big reason is high taxes, now these xplants want to ruin JAX like they've ruined the northern cities.

I am all for mass transit that pays for itself, I am against duplicating what goes on in places like NYC

I thought you had something sensible to say as far as the number go.

[Ocklawaha]

So you lived in NYC? I once drove through Myrtle Beach, but that doesn't make me a life guard. Where do my numbers come from?
I do this as a profession. This is not to say I that I don't value everyones opinion, but to answer requests to visit my/the dream (before the newspapers get it) I have shared what I can with you. If you really hate it, show up at the meetings and be heard. You will be reading much of this or seeing it on TV in the coming months.

Railway Track and Structures Magazine
Transporte Colombia
FCN de Colombia
Pacific Ry of Colombia
Railway Age Magazine
Metro Magazine
Timothy Leary, Trip of the month club
Mass Transit Magazine
Florida Transportation Magazine
Rail Magazine
JCCI Study of Skyway, 1983
FTA Grants
UMTA Grants
Federal Transit Administration
A Tale of Two Cities, by Charles Dickens
Jacksonville Transportation Authority
Florida Department of Transportation
US DOT
Light Rail Now
The Monorail Society
Hatachi Monorail
Bombardier Transportation

Just to name a few. BTW, I was asked to look in my "crystal ball" because I am working within the City to bring this dream to reality. I will be one of a couple of guest speakers at the JTA-Mayor-City meeting the second week of Jan. If you doubt my numbers, show up at FDOT for the meeting on Jan. 10th posted in this thread. If you want more numbers and facts on Light Rail or BRT look at:

http://www.freewebs.com/lightrailjacksonville/
For pages of facts and numbers...

or

http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/
For an easy read about the "dream" systems...

The super sprawl argument doesn't hold up under the light from the US census bureau either. EVERY city of our population or above already has rail, bus, streetcar, monorail etc... So do some 50 smaller places.

To which I hear: "Yes but they are not as spread out as Jacksonville, they are WAY more dense..."

NOPE!

Census numbers show that we fall right dead in the middle of the "Have transit group" in population per square mile. In fact our population along our historic rail and streetcar lines, rivals some of the older Northeastern cities.

Get ready Jacksonville, JTA and I may not have kissed and made up, but we CAN work hand in hand, and your train is in sight!

Ocklawaha

[KerryB]

Originally Posted by apvbguy

I get my numbers from living in NYC where mass transit is heavily subsidised from general taxes, taxes on utilities, diversion of motor vehicle taxes from road projects to mass transit and higher than necessary bridge and tunnel tolls that send the excess funds to mass transit. What is going on there is typical liberal redistribution of monies to fund inexpensive mass transit. Why do you think people are fleeing from high tax places like NY, NJ, CT, MASS?
one big reason is high taxes, now these xplants want to ruin JAX like they've ruined the northern cities.

I am all for mass transit that pays for itself, I am against duplicating what goes on in places like NYC

Again, why don't you compare Jax to a city of like size there, chief. Sure, lets compare a city that has 18 million people crammed in it to one that has 1.2 million. Thats pretty smart.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by KerryB

Again, why don't you compare Jax to a city of like size there, chief. Sure, lets compare a city that has 18 million people crammed in it to one that has 1.2 million. Thats pretty smart.

chief? do you think I'm an indian?

regardless of size, a mass transit system costs a lot of money to build and even more to maintain and operate, not one advocate of mass transit in JAX can pin point where this funding will come from. As I have noted there is not one mass transit system in the US that is not heavily subsidised from taxes. And like I've already noted duval county is already crying poverty and has a large (for the region) tax rate. So until the advocates of mass transit can identify the source of funds, I contend that mass transit in JAX will remain a pipe dream. and NYC proper has about 8 million people, and you'd think that since mass transit up there has so many users it wouldn't need such large subsidies, but you'd be wrong and here in JAX with a much lower population base to support it mass transit would require much larger subsidies.

[apvbguy]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

So you lived in NYC? I once drove through Myrtle Beach, but that doesn't make me a life guard. Where do my numbers come from?
I do this as a profession. This is not to say I that I don't value everyones opinion, but to answer requests to visit my/the dream (before the newspapers get it) I have shared what I can with you. If you really hate it, show up at the meetings and be heard. You will be reading much of this or seeing it on TV in the coming months.

Railway Track and Structures Magazine
Transporte Colombia
FCN de Colombia
Pacific Ry of Colombia
Railway Age Magazine
Metro Magazine
Timothy Leary, Trip of the month club
Mass Transit Magazine
Florida Transportation Magazine
Rail Magazine
JCCI Study of Skyway, 1983
FTA Grants
UMTA Grants
Federal Transit Administration
A Tale of Two Cities, by Charles Dickens
Jacksonville Transportation Authority
Florida Department of Transportation
US DOT
Light Rail Now
The Monorail Society
Hatachi Monorail
Bombardier Transportation

Just to name a few. BTW, I was asked to look in my "crystal ball" because I am working within the City to bring this dream to reality. I will be one of a couple of guest speakers at the JTA-Mayor-City meeting the second week of Jan. If you doubt my numbers, show up at FDOT for the meeting on Jan. 10th posted in this thread. If you want more numbers and facts on Light Rail or BRT look at:

http://www.freewebs.com/lightrailjacksonville/
For pages of facts and numbers...

or

http://jacksonvilletransit.blogspot.com/
For an easy read about the "dream" systems...

The super sprawl argument doesn't hold up under the light from the US census bureau either. EVERY city of our population or above already has rail, bus, streetcar, monorail etc... So do some 50 smaller places.

To which I hear: "Yes but they are not as spread out as Jacksonville, they are WAY more dense..."

NOPE!

Census numbers show that we fall right dead in the middle of the "Have transit group" in population per square mile. In fact our population along our historic rail and streetcar lines, rivals some of the older Northeastern cities.

Get ready Jacksonville, JTA and I may not have kissed and made up, but we CAN work hand in hand, and your train is in sight!

Ocklawaha

so you divulge your true colors, you're a professional advocate for mass transit, ie: train brain.

the challenge remains, where will the funding for your pollyanna mass transit schemes come from?? until you can identify the source of funds, every bit of train brain propaganda you offer is meaningless, as the saying goes, "show me the money" or another one, "money talks, B.S. walks.

[jimbo13]

can we all agree that there is NO way that any type of mass transit system could succeed in jacksonville? that town is simply way too spread out for an elevated subway...