Bus Rapid Transit Report (Jacksonville, Orange Park: houses, transfer, live in)

[Ocklawaha]

Multi-posted in several forums for news value:

Hello y'all:



I'm just back from the JTA meeting and have a bit to report... (put your happy faces on).

The newest things out of the box is:

Water transit "might work" but only evening and morning rush hours. (Could have told them that). It's going to be WAY too slow, (Could have told them that). It's not going to get under the FEC bridge downtown so it won't connect to anything, (Could have told them that). Not enough demand to do more then a Green Cove Springs, Orange Park, to either Baptist Hospital or to about the TU building... (Isn't going to fly... not for the money, could have told them that too!). THINK JTA! Name one single person you know in any of these counties, that lives on the riverfront, that "NEEDS" transit. It's different in Europe where small canal like waterways slice through mile after endless mile of dense, low rise flats, filled with common workers.

BRT, Well we plan to use the BJP $100 Million for BRT filling stations and a couple of "end point" stations. Sucks. NO MONEY has been released yet, we can hope Glorious could lead a stop to it.

BRT downtown has gotten a bit smarter, and a bit dumber at one moment. There is a plan to use Broad and Jefferson as the North-South Core from the Acosta Bridge to State and Union Streets. So far so good. Then, they plan to use Forsyth and Bay to access the Union Terminal, West from Jefferson and Broad.

THIS WILL DUPLICATE THE SKYWAY FROM JEFFERSON ST STATION TO UNION STATION, killing what little ridership it has. It won't feed a damn thing.

The Southbank gets really goofy, they plan to use the ground floor of the San Marco, Riverplace, and Kings Avenue skyway station. This will KILL the Skway investment from Central Station to all of the Southbank but for a trickle, If the buses originate at Rosa Parks, it will completely kill the system. Further, there is an avenue for BRT on the Southbank that would open a completely new transit corridor. I brought it up and it appeared they just didn't get it. Finally I think someone copied it down. Bottom line:

Cross the Acosta Bridge,
Exit the expressway and turn RIGHT into Baptist Medical Center/Wolfson/Nemouirs/Atnea
on Prudential Drive
Left in front of the Baptist garages on Palm
to Gary Street South of the I-95
Left on Gary St. with some busway completion and double direction running all the way to Kings Avenue Station.

Rather then Compete with the Skyway this would compliment it and balance the transit route choices in the Southbank core.

Otherwise, Northbank downtown core BRT appears to be dying a slow death due to JEDC, DVI, City and indecision on Court Houses, Matthews Bridges etc...

The Riverside/5-Points "Potato-Chip-Truck-Trolleys" are now going to be a lunch hour only item, something like 11 am to 1:30 pm only. They will connect the landing with Riverside and the fancy little stations on Riverside, were injected into the planning of the big towers now going up, so JTA is NOT building them.
Right-of-way for future Skyway, which they estimated in the year 2550, will be preserved down Riverside Avenue by FDOT.

REAL STREETCARS should use Park Avenue and Annie Lytle, hence into 5-Points, down Oak, to King to St. Vincents. (My comments)

Rail was mentioned as a "REAL" study then we were informed that we only had one BRT route that had any probable rail replacement... Union Terminal - Roosevelt - Orange Park - Green Cove Springs (which if built, at 79 MPH it would quickly sink the water craft commuter boat). The "other routes" they indicated were more likely to be BRT...

I advanced the "S" line to them with the addition of a busway alongside between Moncrief and Main Street. A transfer station at BLVD. and behind Shands would bring all the buses off Moncrief from NW Jax together with buses from Eastside and Northeast Panama/Phoenix areas. Add to that mix a light rail vehicle shuttling from Union Station to the Shands Station, hence north to Swisher, Gateway and the Airport cut-off and you have a BALANCED transit system with choices. Toss in a Streetcar from Union Station- Water-Independence-Newnan-1st-Main-8Th-BLVD and we get more transit choices... Complete the Skyway to the stadium at Randolph, tie into said Streetcar at Newnan and we get the best of 4 worlds of Transit...

But, been there, done that.... Did you read this weeks Folio Editorial? Bottom line.... "Looks like the system will be mostly if not all BRT..."

Gobble, gobble, gobble, gobble... TURKEY'S.

Ocklawaha

[riveree]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

[

The Riverside/5-Points "Potato-Chip-Truck-Trolleys" are now going to be a lunch hour only item, something like 11 am to 1:30 pm only. They will connect the landing with Riverside and the fancy little stations on Riverside, were injected into the planning of the big towers now going up, so JTA is NOT building them.
Right-of-way for future Skyway, which they estimated in the year 2550, will be preserved down Riverside Avenue by FDOT.


But, been there, done that.... Did you read this weeks Folio Editorial? Bottom line.... "Looks like the system will be mostly if not all BRT..."

So if you're working Downtown, you can now take a trolley to Riverside for lunch?? Well, that sounds good.

Future skyway is planned for 2550? Do you mean 2050? I don't think I'll be around to see the former....might not even be around to see the latter.

YES!! I read the editorial! I was really hoping for a full article about the future of mass transit for Jax, but this was a good start. I think it showed than Mann guy in a good light.

[Ocklawaha]

Believe it or not, that's what they REALLY said, as they think it's a dead system right where it lays. Yet a week ago, the first three things out of the mouths of the 3 highly paid experts on "our" rail system was:

1. Finish the Skyway
2. Finish the Skyway
3. Finish the Skyway

JTA just blew it off and said something smart like "Yeah, about 2550, maybe our children's, children's, children will see it. Almost as if the've seen themselves in the mirror and got very scared by what they saw. Be afraid, be VERY afraid!

Yeah, the PTC "Trolley thing" will be a lunch hour only blue plate special.

For a more detailed blast of JTA and RAIL TRANSIT see page 17 of last weeks Folio, the one with the cartoon train on the cover. This week was pretty darn strong editorial speak, for someone who hasn't interviewed me! Interesting. But Gwynedd REALLY did a job on her story and that is what they based it on. So yes, it was the Bob Mann guy again... hee hee.

Ocklawaha

[riveree]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

For a more detailed blast of JTA and RAIL TRANSIT see page 17 of last weeks Folio, the one with the cartoon train on the cover. This week was pretty darn strong editorial speak, for someone who hasn't interviewed me! Interesting. But Gwynedd REALLY did a job on her story and that is what they based it on. So yes, it was the Bob Mann guy again... hee hee.[/color][/b]

]

That's the Folio I missed!

I was sick and didn't get out much that week, so I couldn't pick one up and the husband is fairly useless in those regards ("I forgot...I'll get it tomorrow...I forgot again...").

This is why Folio needs to be online!

[travelingfood]

I guess they don't have the "if you build it, they will come" attitude.

[Ocklawaha]

More like a strange "If we duplicate it, it will double!" concept!

Ocklawaha

[travelingfood]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

More like a strange "If we duplicate it, it will double!" concept!

Ocklawaha

haha much like dot's way of expanding roadways 1 lane at a time.

[Since 1972]

So you're saying we get to look forward to getting stuck behind even more buses that I'll never ride?

Has anyone ever considered a "skyway" that runs down the medians of Atlantic, Beach, Butler, Southside, and Philips (or I-95), connecting the beaches to the malls and downtown? And the same for Blanding and Roosevelt? Or is that too obvious?

[riveree]

Originally Posted by Ocklawaha

What they failed to figure in is we don't live in the air, not too many citizens want to climb flights of stairs to go 3 or 5 blocks. Yes we have elevators, (which smell of urine, and escalators which work SOMETIMES)

BRT - Now that the raised lanes are scrapped (aren't they?), I cannot imagine for the life of me how buses could possibly run in a "bus only" lane?? We can't get drivers to pull aside for emergency vehicles here, how in the world are we going to keep drivers out of a "bus only" lane??

[vdecapio]

This BRT is like the icing on the cake that tells me I need to split from Jax as soon as I can. This place is so un-progressive. Put the horse back in the barn, Sally!! I feel like I am losing brain cells just being here.

The only cool thing to do is to post on this FORUM. Praise God for this FORUM....it is the coolest place in Jacksonville.

I can't believe people would spend a 100 million on buses and elevated lanes for them. That really grinds my gears. Who are these idiots?

Jacksonville has been really fortunate to have a significant population growth over the past 10 years. But I am telling you people my age are not happy here and are going to leave first chance they get, if the head honchos don't get their heads out of their conservative a$$es. Put the sweet tea down, and park the damn buses.