HELP ME !! ( Moving to Jacksonville) (Miami, Orlando: neighborhood, buying, place to live)

[agreatlife]

Originally Posted by vdecapio

... But the majority of the people I have met have been typical white people who either grew up here in Jacksonville or moved here from a northern city <snip> ... Mostly african americans and good ol boys up in that area. I think it is funny how the good ol boys try to be as close to Georgia as possible.

Wow. God forbid someone might have to live next to a "typical white person." Or a "good ol boy" or "african american. "

[vdecapio]

Originally Posted by agreatlife

Wow. God forbid someone might have to live next to a "typical white person." Or a "good ol boy" or "african american. "

Its just nicer if people have character and have not become so "Americanized." This is what I am referring to when I say typical white or african american. These are the lost their heritage and background whites and african americans who are most prevalent around Jacksonville.

All of us have some ethnic background that we can display and share with others....it is who we are. But, unfortunately, when you live in a cookie cutter town, with cookie cutter neighborhoods, and cookie cutter restaurants it is hard to see the diversity that makes everyone.... be they white, black, hispanic, or Asian.... unique.

1st, 2nd, and sometimes 3rd generation whites can retain their ethnic heritage especially in areas where they can be around similar immigrants. The same for africans who immigrated here from Nigeria, Kenya, Sierra Leone, etc. I had true african friends in Jersey who still would wear traditional african clothing (the bright colorful stuff) in their neighborhoods and to church. That is awesome. They would also speak their native language among peers, eat the traditional foods of their homeland, and socialize like they do in Africa. In Africa, the door is open all day. Everyone in the neighborhood talks and interacts together all day. It is a very social continent and people.

But here in the US, and especially in a very Americanized place like Jacksonville, a lot of this diversity is lost simply by the layout and cookie cutterness of the city. If your the only Nigerian family in town, maintaining your traditions is going to be a struggle.....almost as hard as a white italian guy trying to find a good Italian deli.

Just painting an honest picture for the original poster. So, honestly diversity is a little hard to find in Jacksonville and you've got to have Riveree type powers to find it.

[WitchDoctor]

vdecapio, your definition of diversity is different than Riveree's. You aren't really looking for diversity. You are looking for segregation. You want the Italians to stay on their street and open a few good delis. You want to be able to go to the Polish neighborhood and hear people speaking Polish. The Chinese should stay in Chinatown.

The reason you don't see this in Jacksonville and many other cities that have grown rapidly in the last 50 years is because it isn't necessary anymore. Three generations ago, a boat landed in New York. The people had little money and only knew each other. They didn't speak English. So they lived in the same neighborhood and opened businesses that they had in their home country. They didn't have cars, so the neighborhoods were walkable by necessity.

In today's society, a large portion of the world teaches their children English as a second language. This means that immigrants come to this country and they already speak our language. Most of them are better educated than their peers in this country, but that's a completely different topic. They assimilate easily and feel more welcome. They no longer have a need to stay within the confines of a particular part of town.

Jax is still growing out. Any city will grow out until it runs out of space, then it grows up and density increases. You're not going to see the kind of density that you're looking for until space starts getting tight. It might be another 20 years, but I don't think so.

Just painting the picture the way I see it. Jacksonville is a relatively young city that is still growing. The various ethnic groups that make up the population are so well mixed that they are nearly homogenous. This feeling is enhanced by the fact that the density is still relatively low.

Stick around, vdecapio. From your point of view, Jax can only get better.

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by WitchDoctor

You aren't really looking for diversity. You are looking for segregation.

This is my observation exactly.

[vdecapio]

Originally Posted by WitchDoctor

vdecapio, your definition of diversity is different than Riveree's. You aren't really looking for diversity. You are looking for segregation. You want the Italians to stay on their street and open a few good delis. You want to be able to go to the Polish neighborhood and hear people speaking Polish. The Chinese should stay in Chinatown.

The reason you don't see this in Jacksonville and many other cities that have grown rapidly in the last 50 years is because it isn't necessary anymore. Three generations ago, a boat landed in New York. The people had little money and only knew each other. They didn't speak English. So they lived in the same neighborhood and opened businesses that they had in their home country. They didn't have cars, so the neighborhoods were walkable by necessity.

In today's society, a large portion of the world teaches their children English as a second language. This means that immigrants come to this country and they already speak our language. Most of them are better educated than their peers in this country, but that's a completely different topic. They assimilate easily and feel more welcome. They no longer have a need to stay within the confines of a particular part of town.

Jax is still growing out. Any city will grow out until it runs out of space, then it grows up and density increases. You're not going to see the kind of density that you're looking for until space starts getting tight. It might be another 20 years, but I don't think so.

Just painting the picture the way I see it. Jacksonville is a relatively young city that is still growing. The various ethnic groups that make up the population are so well mixed that they are nearly homogenous. This feeling is enhanced by the fact that the density is still relatively low.

Stick around, vdecapio. From your point of view, Jax can only get better.

Excellent post WithDoctor. I do think that you can think of my definition of diversity as segregation, but that was not my intention.

In places where do you find these enclave neighborhoods they do seem segregated. Perhaps that is the fault of the people living in those neighborhoods but also the fault of other people....not open to other cultures...or perhaps scared of them to go into those neighborhoods. I remember when I was in New Jersey and also in Miami, I would purposely go into enclaves where I stood out like a sore thumb. I would sit down among groups of hispanics or greeks or asians and share a meal. No one would speak english except to me. I don't feel that they do this to segregate themselves or to make me feel isolated, but because they express themselves and feel most comfortable with their native language, foods, music, etc. I would then take it upon myself to try and learn from them and try to assimilate into their environment both for my own personal adventure but also show them that a white guy actually respects and even enjoys your culture.

And all these cultures have very unique traditions that should not be lost. Therefore, you do need some sort of environment for these traditions, languages, foods, music to flourish .....an enclave of sorts. Just one Nigerian family in Jacksonville will not be able to fully display the Nigerian culture to Jacksonville.......it would take many Nigerian families and to have any visible voice they would need to have their own neighborhood. As an outsider this neighborhood may seem like segregation. But it takes two sides to form segregation for sure. A desire for assimilation and respect is crucial for the outsider and friendly desire to educate and represent the enclave is necessary within that ethnic neighorhood.

Either way your right....Jacksonville is currently homogeneous. I just don't think that is what America should be. Just my opinion. And you're right it should not be rigidly segregated either.......whether that be by ethnic background or as happens in most cases social class.

The college campus is the prime example of what this country should be. Openly diverse with bascially no social class and highly open to assimilation of ideas, cultures, foods, etc.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by vdecapio

Wow Riveree you have found a good neighborhood. You make me proud seeking out the diverse neighborhoods!

Here's the funny thing though, vdecapio, the white/Phillipino couple next door would let me move in with them if I asked , but the Islander family 3 doors down scowl at me when I wave hello , and the lesbian couple wouldn't know me if they tripped over me, and the indian family who shares a property line with the vietnamese family hate each other...

So, it's a diverse neighborhood, but we don't all get together and sing Kumbaya, that's for sure !

Still, I think it will be great for the next generation who is raised in that neighborhood to see all the ethnicities and hear the languages and see how everyone at least tolerates each other if not gets along with each other...sometimes that's as good as it gets and that's okay .

[riveree]

Originally Posted by WitchDoctor

In today's society, a large portion of the world teaches their children English as a second language. This means that immigrants come to this country and they already speak our language. Most of them are better educated than their peers in this country, but that's a completely different topic. They assimilate easily and feel more welcome. They no longer have a need to stay within the confines of a particular part of town.

That's really true . Most people would not look at me and think "ethnic" and might be suprised to find out that I am the first in my family to be born on American soil. My parents speak multiple languages, english being one, and worked very hard to Americanize their children, which is not atypical of immigrants. We're still very connected to our country of origin, but we're also very capable of adapting and maybe that's part of why I don't find it so difficult living in Jax...I could probably live anywhere...now you know my secret!

[WitchDoctor]

Originally Posted by vdecapio

... I would sit down among groups of hispanics or greeks or asians and share a meal. No one would speak english except to me. I don't feel that they do this to segregate themselves or to make me feel isolated, but because they express themselves and feel most comfortable with their native language, foods, music, etc. I would then take it upon myself to try and learn from them and try to assimilate into their environment both for my own personal adventure but also show them that a white guy actually respects and even enjoys your culture.

We do have some things in common... I do this sort of thing a lot. If I hear a foreign accent, I try to figure out where they are from. If I'm speaking to them, I might ask them where they are from and then at least try to say goodbye in their language.

Originally Posted by vdecapio

The college campus is the prime example of what this country should be. Openly diverse with bascially no social class and highly open to assimilation of ideas, cultures, foods, etc.

I just heard something on NPR that said that colleges were getting away from what they call "three under a tree" ads whose focus in on the diversity of the campus. [shrug]

[compelled to reply]

Originally Posted by riveree

Here's the funny thing though, vdecapio, the white/Phillipino couple next door would let me move in with them if I asked , but the Islander family 3 doors down scowl at me when I wave hello , and the lesbian couple wouldn't know me if they tripped over me, and the indian family who shares a property line with the vietnamese family hate each other...

They all must be from South Florida .

[jsimms3]

Before I post negatively...

I am a frequent reader of this and a few other forums on this site, but dont always feel the need to post, just to read. I am usually a pretty positive person. As a young person I love diversity and several other places even more than Jacksonville. Can you believe it? Anyway, I need to finally lower my maturity level and get something out that bugs me a lot (and i dont know why since this is a computer forum hehe).

Vdecapio,

Moderator cut: edit...taking out the personal stuff...I have lived in Miami, Jacksonville, and now downtown Atlanta. I do like them all, and for each different reasons. (that is of course because each is entirely different). Diversity, I just talked with a friend of mine at the university of miami, a place where you would think is extremely diverse. Well, there are a lot of ethnicities, true, but they sure as hell do not interact with each other once they join their countries' clubs and fraternities. They DO stick just with each other. Riveree, you are one of the top posters (and best posters) on this site, why defend Vdecapio's opinion of diversity with an example. I love how people are growing up nowadays side by side.

Furthermore, I have room to speak, even though you probably will not say so. Half my family comes from Sweden and immigrated to Chicago (and one to Austin, and now I have an uncle in Atlanta so we travel). Of course they did not go to an all Swedish neighborhood, so as a result they have many friends across the board. If they had, (which there is no such thing) my mom would not have met my dad in miami.

Lastly, there are few places in America that fit your bill. NY, NJ, Philly, Boston, DC kinda, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Chicago, LA, and Miami kinda. Miami is not as ethnically divided as you think, so obviously you think Hispanic means one thing. Most neighborhoods are literally just Hispanic across the board with maybe some where on group kinda stands out. There is no Chinatown or little italy, there are black neighborhoods, and lots of them like little old jacksonville, and there are white neighborhoods. The grass is hardly greener on the other side. Get your facts straight.