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Old 07-18-2008, 07:53 AM
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Originally Posted by TiggnTaz View Post
man looks like I hit on a sore subject.

Yeah, and I hope you're satisfied!

Riveree should probably move or lock this thread, since she recently posted something about keeping this forum to Jax-specific topics. But that ain't my call, now is it?

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Old 07-18-2008, 10:18 AM
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Default The price is not as important as who we pay!

Drill now!

Finance foreign wacos no more. (we have enough wacos-D of our own)

Drill now!


Just the threat of drilling lowered the oil prices! What if we really sunk a bit! Prices down more. (bad for democrats wah! wah!)

Drill now!

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Old 07-18-2008, 05:12 PM
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If you even think a post/thread needs a moderators attention, please do use the "report" button (the red triangle) on the upper right of the post.

That being said, the general Florida discussion of this topic can be found here:

Offshore Drilling

So we don't want to duplicate the very same discussion, but we can still have a local discussion about how this impacts our lives here, how we feel about the general topic from the perspective of this part of the state/country etc.

I'm for leaving this discussion open as long as we're not breaking Terms of Service (no personal attacks, etc.).

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Old 07-19-2008, 06:51 PM
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Well, if you wanna know the truth, Dems & Rep both suck. And just like they do, we at the forum here love playing the blame game & shuffling everyone into left or right. Which is just stupid, IMO. Nothing's black or white & if you think that way, then you're part of the problem & why we can't all work together & get stuff done.

Now, I never mentioned anything about the documentary concerning the EV1. In fact, I've never watched it. My point was that it proved that we had the technology well over 10 years ago to mass produce a serious viable alternative to the combustible engine based car.

Screw the cost. That would have been worked out through different means. Besides, the cost of this oil war we're in now absolutely DWARFS what something like that would have cost, so thats no kind of excuse. If the government wanted it, it would have happened. Period.

So, its a failure from everywhere. The auto industry failed, the public failed, the government failed (both pre & post Bush), etc. Now, we're all gonna reap it while we play catchup to something that should have been here already. In Jacksonville, even more.

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Old 07-19-2008, 07:33 PM
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Default Offshore drilling will supply more oil but not to U.S.

The oil that is drilled in the USA goes on the global market with all the other oil from other countries. That is why a good portion of the oil drilled from Alaska ends up in Asia. The oil companies run a business on a global scale. Offshore drilling will have almost NO effect on the price of gasoline because there are many steps and middle men before oil makes it to your pumps.

Oil companies do want more drilling so they can continue to make big money on the global markets. By the way, since the value of our dollar is so low, more of the oil drilled here will probably be sold to other countries.

Have a right good day.

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Old 07-19-2008, 10:15 PM
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Originally Posted by jojajn View Post
The oil that is drilled in the USA goes on the global market with all the other oil from other countries. That is why a good portion of the oil drilled from Alaska ends up in Asia. The oil companies run a business on a global scale. Offshore drilling will have almost NO effect on the price of gasoline because there are many steps and middle men before oil makes it to your pumps.
I agree, it's not like Florida is going to get the oil because it's being drilled off of our shore .

I'm also hearing conflicting reports of how much oil is there. First I heard 2 & 1/2 years worth, then 12 years worth .

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Old 07-20-2008, 09:59 AM
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Back to the horses, I say!

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Old 07-20-2008, 11:05 PM
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The U.S. Department of Energy summarizes the crux of the issue: “Access to the Pacific, Atlantic, and eastern Gulf regions would not have a significant impact on domestic crude oil and natural gas production or prices before 2030. Leasing would begin no sooner than 2012, and production would not be expected to start before 2017.”
The same is true of ANWR; in its May 2008 analysis of Crude Oil Production in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge, the Energy Department’s Energy Information Administration concluded that oil drilling in ANWR would not affect the U.S. oil supply for at least a decade: “The opening of the ANWR 1002 Area to oil and natural gas development is projected to increase domestic crude oil production starting in 2018.”

And yet, many drilling proponents argue that even though it will take some time to bring the oil to market, it’s better late than never. Rich Lowry, filling in for Sean Hannity on Fox News, argues that, “We’ve heard this argument before that drilling here in the U.S. will only help 10 years out, 13 years out or so. In fact, that’s basically what Bill Clinton said when he vetoed drilling in ANWR 10 or 13 years ago … so I’m just not sure it’s a very good reason to oppose drilling because it’s only going to help in the long term.”

In fact, the Department of Energy reports that even when the oil does come on line, domestic production would likely increase by a mere 7 percent, and “[b]ecause oil prices are determined on the international market… any impact on average wellhead prices is expected to be insignificant.”

Note also that, even with the expanded drilling, the United States consumes a quarter of the world’s oil, yet only sits on about two percent of the world’s known reserves. In other words, we’ll likely be highly dependent on foreign oil for a long time, even if we “drilled off of every beach, and inside every national park, refuge, and forest,” as a Center for American Progress fact-sheet notes, or we invested in an Apollo-like program to develop new energy sources in the coming decades.
CAP also notes a few more reasons why more drilling just doesn’t make sense:
  • Oil companies hold over 4,000 undeveloped leases in the western Gulf of Mexico. And the government already leases 44 million acres offshore, of which only 10.5 million—or one quarter—are producing oil or gas.
  • We lack the infrastructure to drill the oil. Existing drilling ships are “booked solid for the next five years,” and demand for deepwater rigs has driven up the price of such ships. Oil companies just don’t have the resources to explore oil fields in the desired offshore regions.
What, then, is driving the panic? The New York Times offers this in an editorial: “The only real beneficiaries will be the oil companies that are trying to lock up every last acre of public land before their friends in power—Mr. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney—exit the political stage.” The piece concludes that the push for offshore drilling, framed as a solution to high gas prices, is “worse than a dumb idea. It is cruelly misleading.”
While the issue has been decently reported, with tough editorials in local newspapers and national ones, and in CNN reports such as this one, all is not well on the offshore front.

One problem with the reporting has been the creation of a false equivalence between the two sides—a common journalistic weakness that those who do not value truth are always eager to exploit. When Contessa Brewer aired President Bush’s flawed arguments on MSNBC, for instance, she noted simply that he was “pushing for help from Europe.” After airing a similar clip from President Bush, CNN’s Wolf Blitzer asked the deceptive and loaded question, “Will Congress agree to offshore oil drilling to help ease the price of gas?” as if the two were somehow inextricably related.
Worse has been some reporters’ willingness to allow lobbyists for oil companies speak to the matter without telling the audience they work for oil companies. This happened twice on MSNBC in recent weeks. On June 10, Andrea Mitchell hosted former Sens. John Breaux (D-LA) and Trent Lott (R-MS) to talk about energy policy. Lott called for “more drilling” of what Breaux described as “huge potential reserves” in parts of the country, adding, “we gotta do what we can to develop our own resources right here.” Mitchell told the audience that the two “formed a firm” together, but did not mention that the firm’s clients include oil and gas companies Chevron, Shell, and Plains Exploration & Production Co.
Eight days later on MSNBC, Mitchell hosted Republican National Committee deputy chairman Frank Donatelli to discuss a call to end the moratorium on offshore drilling, but did not mention that Donatelli was once a registered lobbyist for energy sector clients ExxonMobil and Dominion Resources.
A final sin—as always—is just plain making stuff up on the issue. CNN allowed the well-known fantast Glenn Beck to do just this on June 18, when he falsely claimed on his show that drilling in Alaska “would yield 100 million barrels a day.” As Media Matters noted, that exaggerates the figure by oh … 7,000 percent.

Sean Hannity took a similar vacation from reality on his radio when he said, “[W]e’ve got China, you know, joining with Cuba, they’re drilling 60 miles off our shores of Florida.” This was a completely erroneous claim made—but then retracted—by Vice President Dick Cheney. George Will also made the claim, but issued a retraction.
Perhaps it is unreasonable to expect oil companies—any more than cigarette companies—to tell the public the truth about the ancillary effects of their product, particularly when they see an opportunity to exploit a public panic. Truth is the media’s job. Too bad so many of its most highly paid and most visible members don’t always agree.

Stolen from Think Again: Drilling Deep to Mislead on Oil Prices
Good post.

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Old 07-21-2008, 08:34 AM
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Good post.
Yeah...if only it were true.

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Old 07-21-2008, 12:38 PM
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Default ?

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Originally Posted by joninclay View Post
Yeah...if only it were true.
How about giveing us the information, and sources, that you have that show it isn't true. It is easy to deny what one does not want to accept. Do a search, see what you learn. The information about oil companies, the oil markets, and offshore drilling are unpleasant but we must accept the facts if we are going to have a chance at fixing the problem.

Have a good search.

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