Maybe I'm missing something... (Jacksonville, Atlantic Beach: crime, neighborhoods, school)

[riveree]

Originally Posted by tjax1000

Downtown alone has so many cool old buildings. How awesome would it be to see those buildings brought back to life along with some 21st century high rise counterparts made of glass and steel to occupy the perimeter. Really, what is the hangup with this in so many cities? Is it critical mass? People won't move back to downtown until thousands of other people do it? I guess the upshot is that progress is being made.

Along with critical mass, Jacksonville has a challenge because our incomes are so low. There are some wonderful downtown residential projects, but how affordable are they in relation to Jacksonville salaries?

With migrations back to city centers, it's the younger people leading the way, so we need to be sure the living options are affordable for them.

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by riveree

Along with critical mass, Jacksonville has a challenge because our incomes are so low. There are some wonderful downtown residential projects, but how affordable are they in relation to Jacksonville salaries?

With migrations back to city centers, it's the younger people leading the way, so we need to be sure the living options are affordable for them.

yeah, good point riveree. That's been an issue in Jax...most downtown residential options are high end luxury units.

[proud American]

Originally Posted by tjax1000

It has been about 3 years since I've lived in Jax, but I'm really surprised after reading this forum to see that so many large projects are continuing to break ground. I've read about or heard about a couple large projects in the Southside area for example.... Something near Gate Pkwy, and some things near the Avenues.

I guess two things suprise me. Traffic was absolutely horrible in Jax when I left at certain times of the day. I remember being clogged in Gate Parkway traffic long before SJTC originated. I can't even conceive of what it will be like with these new developements on the Southside! I have to assume we're talking about I-4 type traffic, where hour commutes through town are not uncommon.

Second, I thought we were in a huge recession (according to the talking heads on TV anyway.) I have to admit even looking at it objectively, our economic status isn't so great right now. Big projects are being halted everywhere, and I know *some* in Jax have been halted. Yet it seems that certain pockets are almost immune. I would have said that Jax was already saturated with commerical, residential rentals, condos, and single family homes.

So you can see the contradiction for an "outsider." What am I missing? Is the economy and job growth in Jax just outpacing the rest of the state? Really curious to know!

the last thing we need here in St Johns county, St Augustine or even JAX is more of those horrible tacky strip malls or outlet malls or even those same look alike boring gated communities.

Does make me laugh when people go on about the economy and yet they go eating at the over priced snobby cheescake factory with their valet parking then the folks who shop at the johns shopping center finsih their shopping there to go off to the mostly white , all look alike no style or no character gated communities.

[KerryB]

Originally Posted by proud American

the last thing we need here in St Johns county, St Augustine or even JAX is more of those horrible tacky strip malls or outlet malls or even those same look alike boring gated communities.

Does make me laugh when people go on about the economy and yet they go eating at the over priced snobby cheescake factory with their valet parking then the folks who shop at the johns shopping center finsih their shopping there to go off to the mostly white , all look alike no style or no character gated communities.

Since when is the Cheesecake Factory snobby & overpriced?? lol. Dude, I seriously eat there for like $10 total. Have you seen their portions? Even the appetizers are HUGE & meals in themselves.

And yeah, I dont live in a trailer park but I dont live in a gated community either & like to go over to SJTC occasionally. Me thinks you generalize too much.

[tjax1000]

Originally Posted by proud American

the last thing we need here in St Johns county, St Augustine or even JAX is more of those horrible tacky strip malls or outlet malls or even those same look alike boring gated communities.

I was only around for phase one of the SJTC, but while it was supposedly different, I kind of got a chuckle because I found it to be more of the same... It is basically a re-designed strip mall with a facade trying to make it look like cool architecture with lofts above the street-level retail. Just like the set in an old Western movie.

It is a nice upgrade over shopping in an indoor mall on a nice day, this much is true. But it is a cheap copy of a "real" downtown area. I think the problem here is that one developer can't easily invent a downtown from scratch on their own.

The Tapestry development looks like it might be a little different. I'm curious to see. Another nice thing would be to encourage small businesses to move in, as opposed to the predictable set of national chains.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by tjax1000

I was only around for phase one of the SJTC, but while it was supposedly different, I kind of got a chuckle because I found it to be more of the same... It is basically a re-designed strip mall with a facade trying to make it look like cool architecture with lofts above the street-level retail. Just like the set in an old Western movie.

It is a nice upgrade over shopping in an indoor mall on a nice day, this much is true. But it is a cheap copy of a "real" downtown area. I think the problem here is that one developer can't easily invent a downtown from scratch on their own.

The Tapestry development looks like it might be a little different. I'm curious to see. Another nice thing would be to encourage small businesses to move in, as opposed to the predictable set of national chains.

Even better, get developers to focus on infill projects in well-established, older neighborhoods and reuse projects in formerly industrial areas. This is why I'm excited to see what happens with Jackson Square in San Marco. This is an infill project that will improve another section of San Marco expanding San Marco's livability and walkability.

While a developer starting from scratch has to build the "town center" AND attract a population to live in the new tiny town, an infill project only has to serve the existing population .

[projectmaximus]

Originally Posted by riveree

Even better, get developers to focus on infill projects in well-established, older neighborhoods and reuse projects in formerly industrial areas. This is why I'm excited to see what happens with Jackson Square in San Marco. This is an infill project that will improve another section of San Marco expanding San Marco's livability and walkability.

While a developer starting from scratch has to build the "town center" AND attract a population to live in the new tiny town, an infill project only has to serve the existing population .

Correct! And SJTC is missing the vital mixed-use buildings...put some residential over the retail. Avenues Walk was originally going to do this; their plans have changed significantly but hopefully the final product still takes it one step further than SJTC.

[coolyfett]

Originally Posted by proud American

the last thing we need here in St Johns county, St Augustine or even JAX is more of those horrible tacky strip malls or outlet malls or even those same look alike boring gated communities.
Does make me laugh when people go on about the economy and yet they go eating at the over priced snobby cheescake factory with their valet parking then the folks who shop at the johns shopping center finsih their shopping there to go off to the mostly white , all look alike no style or no character gated communities.

Yea right!! Some people really don't have a clue. Read up on the history of sprawl...monkey see monkey do. Its crazy how society creates an option while killing another option in the process, only to figure out there is no option. Everyone has to do what the majority does. Southern cities are notorious for that!!!! Read up on the history on different cities. The option that so many want what was once available. Some rich guy in the 1900s had a car, so everyone stopped using the local trolleys and wanted a car. Some rich guy had a house out in the trees, then he started selling land to other rich guys so they could build their house away from the city, then the regular people followed, that could afford to follow, the ones that couldn't afford to move from the city ended up ruining the area. I mean the same thing has happened in almost every city in the US. Read history books, read and see what people were really trying to get from. Oh and another thing. Road builders, gas companies & auto makers were all BEST FRIENDS in the 50s & 60s. Now they(auto makers) begging the government for money, now they(gas companies) don't have a huge demand for their product. Give people more options and stop trying to corner the damn market all the time. If the rich guy was to choose transit and urban living and all the regular people followed we would be a lot better situation.

*shaking head*

[riveree]

Originally Posted by projectmaximus

Correct! And SJTC is missing the vital mixed-use buildings...put some residential over the retail. Avenues Walk was originally going to do this; their plans have changed significantly but hopefully the final product still takes it one step further than SJTC.

Is there still going to be residential in Avenues Walk? I did not know that....it would be nice if there was .

I agree about SJTC. It's a great project and obviously successful, but they could have made a better integration between residential and commercial. Part of the problem may have been in their original plan only incorporating the most high end residential into the walking area and relegating the more modest residential to the outskirts. Now of course the market has changed and so have their plans and now the modest outskirt properties are about all they have . They should have focused on a mix of residential prices to be in the core and they'd have some livability going on right now.

[Erik_Veston]

Traffic in Jax is so-so... I saw worse in San Diego, CA especially on the 8 during rush hours. Oahu, Hawaii around Honolulu & Pearl sucked bad too. Possibly, alot of the congestion here though is that they are indeed putting in huge communities with hundreds of homes and typically upgrading the infrastructure after it is a problem rather than do it first. **This is outside of Jax really but, take the southbound I95 exit to 210 for instance, during the afternoon rush hour... haha, perfect example. There's a sign off of 95 before you get there warning you that the right 2 lanes should prepare to stop at certain times of the day.. haha...