What is the cause of all the Crime in Jacksonville? (Jacksonville Beach: buy, good schools)
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If people are so scared of crime now in Jax, especially violent crime, they must have been absolutely terrified 10, 20 years ago.
Since 1992, when violent crime was at it's peak, about 77k incidents that year, it has plummeted to about 48k incidents last year, in 2009. That's about a 38% drop in violent crime in that last 18 years.
From 2008 to 2009 alone, here are some very impressive stats:
As you can see non-violent crimes are also significantly down, just year to year.
JSO, btw, out performs the national average by A LOT.
These are the clearance rates of incidents, meaning the % that they found the suspect and processed him/her:
Murder Jax 78.8% National 53.6%
Rape Jax 69.3% National 41.6%
Robbery Jax 23.7% National 21.5%
Agg. Assualt Jax 55.7% National 47%
All Violent Crime Jax 45.3% National 36.9%
Burglary Jax 12.1% National 9.1%
Larceny Jax 20.3% National 14.1%
Vehicle Theft Jax 19.6% National 8.7%
All Property Crime Jax 18% National 12.3%
Jacksonville Sherriff's Office, is very, very good.
So either everyone was lucky to be alive back then, or people should stop exaggerating and sensationalizing crime (especially the media) now.
By the way, this is a national trend. Crime, especially violent crme, has been coming down, and down, and down for the last 20 years.....but at the same time, people's fear of it has gone up.
Very strange and irrational.
Thought this conversation needed a few facts. =)
You're welcome.
And i'll present more:
Crime doesn't have anythin to do with race, Robyn, and whoever else referenced it.
Neither do entitlements, which is 100% off topic.
As another posters said, THE CAUSE OF CRIME IS SAME AS THE CAUSE OF CRIME EVERYWHERE.
(a) poor values
(b) poverty
Everything goes back to those 2. Poor parenting, lack of role moels, no fathers, drugs, illiteracy, desperation, laziness, etc, etc.
It has nothing to do with race, as in different parts of the US and the world, different populations are the victims/perpetrators of these flaws.
In rural West Virgina, there are many, many no good white POS's, in suburban Arizona, there are many, many no good hispnaic POS's, and in urban Chicago there are many, many no good black POS's.
So if you can, get off the race thing. It applies to all races, just eends on which has the unfortunate happenstance to have (a) poor values, mostly due to a vicuous cyle of bad parentng and (b) poverty, and with it a skewed outlook on lack of opprotunity.
At any rate, the crme numbers look good.
Just spoke to Asst Chief Butler & Director Robinson (? I think his name was) earlier is week.
Overall crime in Jax is projected, at this point, to fall another 13% from last year.
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsu813
There's a disconnect here.
If people are so scared of crime now in Jax, especially violent crime, they must have been absolutely terrified 10, 20 years ago.
Since 1992, when violent crime was at it's peak, about 77k incidents that year, it has plummeted to about 48k incidents last year, in 2009. That's about a 38% drop in violent crime in that last 18 years.
From 2008 to 2009 alone, here are some very impressive stats:
As you can see non-violent crimes are also significantly down, just year to year.
JSO, btw, out performs the national average by A LOT.
These are the clearance rates of incidents, meaning the % that they found the suspect and processed him/her:
Murder Jax 78.8% National 53.6%
Rape Jax 69.3% National 41.6%
Robbery Jax 23.7% National 21.5%
Agg. Assualt Jax 55.7% National 47%
All Violent Crime Jax 45.3% National 36.9%
Burglary Jax 12.1% National 9.1%
Larceny Jax 20.3% National 14.1%
Vehicle Theft Jax 19.6% National 8.7%
All Property Crime Jax 18% National 12.3%
Jacksonville Sherriff's Office, is very, very good.
So either everyone was lucky to be alive back then, or people should stop exaggerating and sensationalizing crime (especially the media) now.
By the way, this is a national trend. Crime, especially violent crme, has been coming down, and down, and down for the last 20 years.....but at the same time, people's fear of it has gone up.
Hey Captaincatfish ... If you're ever in Jax, I'd like to buy you a cup of coffee, or a beer, your choice.
Thank you so much for your offer...and (making sure Mrs Catfish isn't listening LOL) I'll take a full-strength Pepsi (I'm diabetic, and full strength Pepsi is usually a big no-no, but I figure one wont kill me! LOL)
And if you ever venture north to Middletown, I'll return the favor
Crime doesn't have anythin to do with race, Robyn, and whoever else referenced it.
Neither do entitlements, which is 100% off topic.
As another posters said, THE CAUSE OF CRIME IS SAME AS THE CAUSE OF CRIME EVERYWHERE.
(a) poor values
(b) poverty
Everything goes back to those 2. Poor parenting, lack of role moels, no fathers, drugs, illiteracy, desperation, laziness, etc, etc.
It has nothing to do with race, as in different parts of the US and the world, different populations are the victims/perpetrators of these flaws.
In rural West Virgina, there are many, many no good white POS's, in suburban Arizona, there are many, many no good hispnaic POS's, and in urban Chicago there are many, many no good black POS's.
So if you can, get off the race thing. It applies to all races, just eends on which has the unfortunate happenstance to have (a) poor values, mostly due to a vicuous cyle of bad parentng and (b) poverty, and with it a skewed outlook on lack of opprotunity.
At any rate, the crme numbers look good.
Just spoke to Asst Chief Butler & Director Robinson (? I think his name was) earlier is week.
Overall crime in Jax is projected, at this point, to fall another 13% from last year.
FSU I have consistently agreed with you on the stats and pointed others out that show crime is going down here in Jax and that there is no cause for alarm (and for you and I's sake no cause not to move to the urban core )
However, the thread has evolved and maybe a new thread should be started, but as you point out and inadvertently contradict yourself, race and crime corellate for other cities, but you still say race has nothing to do with it. I agree race has nothing to do with it, but rather the values and poor parenting you also point out.
Unfortunately in Jacksonville's sake that often happens (poor parenting, lack of parenting, lack of values) in the black community and it is pretty hard to deny that. I still believe that poverty and a lack of values are inadvertently caused by welfare and other entitlement systems.
Before Springfield got to be where it was today, the most good that happened in that neighborhood that changed the most amount of lives for the better was St. Mary's Church and Fresh Ministries, not welfare, which actually impacted more lives and did nothing at best.
“You live in Springfield?! How is it? Do you feel safe there?” as the surprised look turns into genuine curiosity…or maybe concern for your personal safety.
Most of us have had that conversation with a coworker or friend, probably more than once. Some of us look forward to it, as chance to squash stereotypes and rumor, while others dread it; justifying where you live can become tiresome.
It’s a common experience amongst Springfielders, and one that’s understandable. Years ago, but not that long ago really, Springfield was a neighborhood all too familiar with extreme poverty and serious crime. Shootings, robbery, drug dealing, prostitution. Not in the dark cover of night, but blatantly, confidently, in the bright sunshine of day.
“It was not a place you’d want to be,” describes Michael Adams, a life-long Jacksonville resident. “Just walking down the street was dangerous back in the day, sometimes deadly if you made the wrong turn”.
Michael’s point of view was certainly not unique, or unjustified. Undoubtedly, Springfield was a hotbed of crime, violent crime, and poverty in Duval County for decades, peaking in the mid to late 80’s. The stigma was well earned.
“That’s why long timers don’t trust it. Because we remember how it was. New people, they don’t know anything about the history. Fresh eyes and ears. So they don’t have that baggage, I guess.”
Fast forward 20 years. The neighborhood has changed drastically, almost unrecognizable to some. Crime is still present, but not unusually high. What were once open-air drug markets, attracting criminals and vagrants of all sorts, are now charming middle-class family homes.
Lex Dominguez, Zone 1 Narcotics Officer, reflects:
“I’ve been familiar with Zone 1 (which includes the Springfield Historic District) for about 10 years. This is where I started”, Dominguez recalls. “The intersection of 3rd and Market Street and 6th and Market were dope holes ten years ago. Now, I don’t even bother them with anymore. They’ve moved out. It’s a lot different than 10 years ago”.
Doug Vanderlaan, an 8 year Springfield resident and current chairman of both the Urban Core CPAC (Citizens Planning Advisory Committee) and the Springfield chapter of Shadco, (Sheriffs Advisory Council) agrees. And he would know; he lives at 5th & Market, in what was once a drug corridor between the two former “dope holes.”
“I tell people now and they don’t believe me”, Doug says with a smile on his face.
“It was a daily battle, and I enjoyed being on the frontlines, as strange as that sounds. It went beyond just calling the police for me. I was known to shine my headlights on drug dealers, follow John’s around in my car until they left the neighborhood, and even set up my own confidential informant ring”, Doug explains.
“I used to talk to the drug dealers, the prostitutes, the users. I got to know them and they got to know me a little bit. It was useful. In fact, I started to pay some of the users to supply me with inside information. I would give them $5 and they would tell me where the new drug hotspot was, or where so-and-so hid his stash. Then, I’d call the police and let them know. One time, I called and reported that so-and-so a few blocks away had a silver tray full of cocaine on top of his old refrigerator. It was that detailed.”
Eventually, pioneering such as that paid off. It paid off big. But just how big?
By the Numbers**
Neighborhood residents know that crime has dropped substantially, some better than others. In fact, many of residents wouldn’t be here if it hadn’t. But tangible, real data to support this hasn’t always been easy to find or up to date. But here’s some that is:
In the last 6 years alone, from 2004 to 2009, there has been a 76.2% drop in total drug and prostitution offences, 77.8% drop in total arrests, and a 76% drop in total individual perpetrators in the Springfield Historic District.
In 2004, there were 495 total drug and prostitution offences committed by 328 individuals, resulting in 379 arrests. In 2009, that drops to 118 total drug and prostitution offences committed by 80 individuals, resulting in 84 arrests.
Every year from 2004 to 2009, the total number of drug and prostitution related offences has decreased by roughly 25%. As of June 1st, 2010 (when this data was requested) the current year is projected to meet that 25% drop once again.
During this same time period, 2004 to 2009, Part 1 crimes (those including homicide, sexual assault, robbery, aggravated assault, burglary, larceny, auto theft, and arson) dropped a total of 25% in Springfield, compared to the roughly 4% city-wide mark.
Looking at all incidents (46 different classifications in all, including fraud, natural deaths, phone harassment, etc, etc) over a ten year period, 2000 to 2009, total incidents in the neighborhood dropped 57.8%.
* Projected for 2010.
**Calculated from data provided by the Jacksonville Sheriff’s Office Crime Analysis Unit.
What does this all mean? Well, the trend is clear, but if you’re a resident, you didn’t need stats to know that.
But what if you aren’t a resident?
What if you’re investigating the neighborhood for a possible move, asking friends for their advice, or using the internet to get information? What if you’ve heard about some of the popular new restaurants and bars in the areas, but aren’t sure if it’s “safe” (believe it or not, this still happens)? Then you’ll find all sorts of misleading information, out-of-date opinions, and negative stereotypes, unfortunately, with just a sprinkle of relevant, timely information.
No, Moderator cut: link removed, linking to competitor sites is not allowed is not an accurate website.
But people love stats, and they love numbers. And the one’s listed above are pretty darn impressive.
The Expert
“The neighborhood is extremely diverse. Literally, from millionaires to homeless”, Srgt Jackson describes, “and this can make law enforcement a challenge because you can’t assume someone doesn’t belong here. This is why we need residents to be involved and report suspicious persons if they happen to see one.”
Sergeant Jackson Short, the Zone 1 COPS Unit and Springfield Task Force Sergeant, supervises a group of officers in and around the Springfield Historic District, which is inside Zone 1.
“When I first started in law enforcement, this was one of the hot spots. Wide open drug dealing and frequent shootings were our biggest concerns”, Srgt Jackson explained.
A 12 year veteran and 3rd generation JSO police sergeant, both his father and grandfather spent time working in Springfield.
“Now, I see families, joggers, walkers, and so on. Strong community concern and willingness to get involved made it possible. Springfield is noticeably safer today than it was 10 years ago, and it’s continuing to improve with the help of residents and community groups.
SPAR Council and other community groups are what I call ‘force multipliers’. We’ve secured many arrests, search warrants, and DARTS that were directly attributed to tips from the community, and these organizations. Calling the police directly is the best option, but contacting SPAR or attending monthly Shadco meetings are other good ways of passing along information to JSO as well.”
Though it’s been a steady drop, no one is under the illusion that crime is not an issue anymore. It is, as it is almost everywhere in the city. Certain small pockets are still more prone to crime than others, petty crimes are still a nuisance, and criminals will always look for opportunities, should they arise. In late 2009 several homes were burglarized within a couple of weeks, for example, resulting in at least 1 arrest and increased awareness. But these flares are just that, an exception to the rule. And they appear in almost all neighborhoods, all around the city.
And even though violent crime in Jacksonville, and nationally, has been decreasing over the last 20 years, down almost 16% last year alone, Srgt Jackson has important safety advice to avoid becoming a victim, “Follow the basic safety tips that are available on JSO’s website, such as being aware of your surroundings, locking doors and windows, keeping porch lights on, etc. If you see something suspicious, report it. If your ‘Spider-Sense’ goes off, don’t ignore it.”
Good advice. Not just Springfield residents, but for any neighborhood.
Perception vs. Reality
“We’re in Jacksonville, the murder capital of the state, right? If you ask your average Joe on the street about Springfield, they’ll probably guess 20 of those murders happen here in the neighborhood. But that couldn’t be further from the truth,” Jeremy Hubsch, a 10 month Springfield resident, says.
“My wife and I have lived in Neptune Beach, and most recently on Hodges, between JTB and Beach Blvd. We lived in a nice, gated apartment complex with palm trees, a nice pool, gym, etc. A suburban Mecca, basically, in an area of shiny, new suburban Mecca’s. Not too long ago Springfield wasn’t even on my radar of places to consider moving. But I worked in the area, saw the changes, and thought I’d do a little research. I’m familiar GIS (geographic information systems), so I pulled up the stats and compared the two areas. My wife and I were both surprised: there was far less meaningful crime in Springfield than I would have thought, and far more than I thought where we were living. And there’s much more density and personal interaction here, which makes it all the more impressive.
Actually, we feel safer here than we did in Neptune Beach, believe it or not.”
The perception of crime and safety in Historic Springfield is slowly catching up to reality, even though it may be slower than some residents like. The January 2010 edition of Southern Living Magazine opened up a lot of eyes, as have the neighborhood’s eclectic cafes, First Friday parties, and neighborly disposition. Springfield is a historic, urban, downtown neighborhood. Thus it will always be like most other similar neighborhoods: loaded with individuality, convenience, and multifarious charm, with a vast variety of characters that come with it.
Doug Vanderlaan explains, “We make small compromises that become second nature, like making sure the tool shed or bicycles are locked up, for example. People living in other cities do the same thing, I suspect. But we don’t feel crime substantially affects how we live. We come and go as we please, walk wherever we like, and so on”.
So to answer the original questions, Yes, I live in Springfield.
It’s pretty good, thanks.
And Yes, I feel as safe here as do in Riverside, Beach Blvd, Orange Park….or Neptune Beach, for that matter.
We used to live in FL (native cracker here), and we lived in central FL, but I can see both sides of the argument. In Central FL, there are a lot of hispanics (mostly Puerto Rican). We now live in Asheville NC (), but we saw our new subdivision come crashing down over the last couple yrs. Not only from a value standpoint, but by the folks moving IN and the ones moving OUT. A lot of good people were moving out because of who was moving in.
We had a lot more crime than you'd think in a neighborhood of (in 2006) $300k - 400k homes. Cars broken into, a couple "squatters" living in abandoned houses, homes being broken into, an assault or two, some very rude people, etc... but the worst thing just occured a few days ago. A hispanic male sexually assaulted a woman down the street from my old house. So glad to be out of there. I now live in Asheville NC, and I will say it's almost all white, and we have NO problems at all. I'll live around anyone - no matter race - if they are good people. But I just wonder why we have no problems at all here in Asheville - and at my old subdivision in FL, it always seemed like it was something. And with this latest incident, I'm sure a lot of folks are on edge and wondering what can be done. I feel kind of bad for those who are still there, want to get out, but cant sell their house.
If crime stats in Jax are so great - why did one neighborhood wind up on the dubious achievement list of The 25 Most Dangerous Neighborhoods in the county - and in 4th place no less! Robyn
<<As another posters said, THE CAUSE OF CRIME IS SAME AS THE CAUSE OF CRIME EVERYWHERE.
(a) poor values
(b) poverty
Everything goes back to those 2. Poor parenting, lack of role moels, no fathers, drugs, illiteracy, desperation, laziness, etc, etc.
It has nothing to do with race..>>
The single most important factor in terms of causing a child to grow up in poverty is being born to a single mother (despite attempts in Hollywood to glamorize the situation). Which in turn increases the likelihood that the child will fail - or wind up worse. And since 70% of all AA babies are born illegitimate - that greatly increases their chances of falling into the abyss. I applaud people like Senator Moynihan and Bill Cosby for their efforts in terms of fighting this. But the simple fact of the matter is that over the course of decades - the rate of AA illegitimacy has gone from about 25% to 70% - and the rate of white illegitimacy has gone up a lot as well. Approximately 40% of all children born in the US these days are illegitimate.
The single most important factor in terms of causing a child to grow up in poverty is being born to a single mother (despite attempts in Hollywood to glamorize the situation). Which in turn increases the likelihood that the child will fail - or wind up worse. And since 70% of all AA babies are born illegitimate - that greatly increases their chances of falling into the abyss. I applaud people like Senator Moynihan and Bill Cosby for their efforts in terms of fighting this. But the simple fact of the matter is that over the course of decades - the rate of AA illegitimacy has gone from about 25% to 70% - and the rate of white illegitimacy has gone up a lot as well. Approximately 40% of all children born in the US these days are illegitimate.
Well I hate to bring politics in this, but the recent postings have my agreement (on everyone's side) and sympathies. I personally get tired of blacks getting on other blacks for working hard and getting out of the ghetto, and for politicians for showing their true colors when steretypically loyal to the party people aren't as loyal and choose the other side. Examples:
In Atlanta I have several friends at Morehouse College, a historically black college with lots of notable alumni, and it's definitely an "upper class" black private university with sons of wealthy black families from all over. As a result, especially considering the demographic, it is surprisingly conservative. I hear horror stories from my friends there of being called an Uncle Tom from certain family members or other people in the community and they are often ridiculed for "siding with whitey", simply because they value education, work hard, and don't come from the ghetto or if they do don't plan on going back. I think many politicians, especially of one particular party, have a hard time with successful black people who make it out of the ghetto and then become conservative because they don't want their hard earned money going back to waste and uselessness in the ghetto. (They know it wasn't money that got them out, but good rolemodels and parents and/or grandparents and/or an aunt or uncle that forced them to work hard and focus on school and to have good values). It still makes me sick when people butcher Clarence Thomas, Condoleeza Rice, and other successful blacks who came from absolutely nothing and made something of themselves, but decided not to fit the Democrat/welfare mold. The personal attacks on such people have to end, not only from the politicians and those with influence, but also from the black community.
All of this plays into it because it is politics that ultimately is heavily responsible for the situation many blacks are in. I still hold onto my belief that a system of entitlements is not right and only keeps people down in the dumps (but hey it does provide solid support for many Democrat policies).
BTW Robyn, I know Census numbers say something like Jax metro is around 4.7% Hispanic (closer to 6 or 7 % according to the 2009 estimates), but I have to believe it is higher than that. I would not be surprised if for the 2010 Census new numbers came out and showed 8-9% and maybe 10%, at least in Duval County. We have not only 3,000-4,000+ new immigrants, mostly Hispanic, come directly to Jax a year, but also an influx of South Florida Hispanics coming to Jax each year. I would be more surprised if we were still only 5-6% than I would be if we were 10%.
I agree with you about the Hispanic population number - although not necessarily the census numbers. Most of the Hispanics I've seen around in the last decade are in construction trades - gardening - etc. A large % are Mexican - and I suspect a large % of those are illegals (heck - didn't a contractor working on a city construction job get busted for having illegals on the job?).
Note that I don't think of this as a political issue in a strictly partisan sense because there are so many cross-currents. For example - an illegal Mexican who's willing to work for less than minimum wage can undercut the wage structure of legals willing to do that kind of work - whether they're white or AA. This may not be problem for politicians in certain areas with dominant Mexican/Mexican American populations - but it's a problem for politicians in areas with large AA or native white populations and substantial immigrant Hispanic populations (whether the latter are legal or illegal - with Motor Voter - I know that a fair amount of people who aren't entitled to vote do - at least that was the case in Miami). Who do these politicians pander to ? It's always fun to see how things are shaking out in Florida (a state with a *lot* of cross-currents).
In most places that aren't - for example - in Arizona (which does have drug gang related crime) - the illegals aren't a big direct cause of crime. They work hard - keep their noses clean - and send most of their money home to take care of family. But they can be an indirect cause if they take jobs away from citizens because they're willing to work for substandard wages (since - as we all seem to agree - poverty has at least something to do with criminality). When the economy is humming - this isn't a big deal. When official unemployment is over 9% (and much higher among certain subgroups in the population) - it is.
Anyway - enough sociology for one night. Note that if you (or anyone else) wants to see about 60,000 people like your Morehouse College friends in one place at one time - go to the Honda Battle of the Bands at the Georgia Dome in January (it's a competition among the best marching bands from the historically black colleges in the south - and there are lots of college/sorority/fraternity reunions set during the event). Moreover - it's a great event - the best college band event in the country IMO (my husband is a marching band fanatic and I bought him tickets one year for Christmas). And when we went - tickets were only $10/each. So if you get on Ticketmaster first thing when tickets go on sale in the fall - you can get great seats for $10. We have some excellent bands at the Gator Bowl Parade every year - but this event is like the Super Bowl of Marching Bands. Robyn
P.S. to captaincatfish - I am guessing from your statement that you are diabetic that you are perhaps old enough to have younger grandchildren. If so - this would be a great "Black Pride" type of event to take them to IMO. Only problem is Atlanta in January can have ice storms (which are sometimes a problem in terms of our driving there - and which might be a problem in terms of flying).
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Heyyyyy Parker!
)
? It's always fun to see how things are shaking out in Florida (a state with a *lot* of cross-currents).
