St. Augustine vs. Anywhere (Jacksonville, Miami: real estate, for rent, amusement parks)

[wmorando]

Hello All!

I currently live in Queens, NY, work on a ship and am engaged to be married in September. I am currently paying 1350/month for rent and am not happy about living in NY, but My fiance lives here and this is where we will stay until about December. WE are considering several places to live; Austin, TX area; Raleigh, NC area; Charlottesville, VA area; Asheville, NC area. I never considered living in Fl. My brother is currently visiting his wie, who also works on a ship. He called today and told me St. Augustine seems like a very nice place. I realise that Fl has no state income tax, however I don't really know anything else about it.

My fiance is afraid to go to Florida for the stereotypical reasons like: it is too hot, the people are too old, etc. I realise that it is hot, however it is hot everywhere in the summer, and in Northern florida, it cools down in the wintertime.

I would like advice and info on the area. The overall cost of living, the ups and downs of the area, real estate, renting, What people generally like and dislike about the area.

Any light shed upon this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

[cutler7]

Saint Augustine is a very nice place to live if you want to be in Florida wthout having to deal with "tropical" weather. In my opinion I think it is actually too cool here the majority of the year based on the wind off the ocean. It is, most definately, a beautiful place to live and one could rent a heck of a house for 1350!

[Sarah517]

I love St. Augustine. It's such a historical and pretty place. There's lots to do, like this old walkway with a bunch of cool shops, Ripley's Believe It Or Not, and it's right by the beach. However I don't know much about living there. It might be kind of touristy. Also, every time I have visited it has poured rain.

[palmcoasting]

To me, in the area you are talking about... you'll probably like it. The weather is going to be pretty close to what you are used to except it will be 4 months of August weather vs 1. And you won't have the harsh winter cold and dead look. You'll be in 60-70 degree weather in the winter months with a couple of cold nights that will remind you of NY.
I think St. Augustine might work for you better than Palm Coast only because you are used to the more hustle bustle type stuff of Queens. You'll love the beaches...they are gorgeous.
Pricing of food, in my opinion is higher than NY for a lot of things, such as meats and stuff but lower priced for gas and 'sin' stuff. You'll meet a lot of people from up north which tends to make you feel more at home, not necessarily New Yorkers but northerners that understand what you're talking about when you're talking about home and how things are done. You know what I mean, I'm sure. It's not culture shock in the extreme. What you will learn to do is sloooow doooown some.
Take a vacation there for a couple of days/week. Check it out.. it's really the only way you're going to know. Even if you don't like it to move to you'll have a great time!

[wmorando]

I am not dead set on any one particular place. My fiance is at this point where she is not interested in Florida because she keeps thinking about the stereotypes of old retired folks, extremely high latin community, south beach party scene and hot weather all the time while raining all the time as well.

I will be honest, I don't know anything about St. Augustine, outside of the fact that it is the oldest city in the country. Is there a large retired community there? As I mentioned, I am also considering Austin, Texas area. There is obviously a fairly high latin community there. What can be the real difference in demographics compared to there?

I know, that when you ge tthis far north in Florida...the winter gets cool...not firgid, but cool enough to know it is wintertime. I have become a bigger dan of beaches as I have gotten a little older...they are obviously beautiful there.

I am just talking to my fiance, who also has say in where we need to move. She has this "i don't wanna say I live in florida" attitude. To her defense, she has not really traveled much in her life.

What can I tell her are the real pros and cons of living in St. A? I also mentioned that I work on a ship. For now, I will be gone for 8 weeks at a time. IS there things for her to do in town? What can she do while I am gone? Is St. A a safe area? I am just tyring to find a place where she can be comfortable and not bored out of her mind while I am away (which won't last forever).

The advice and input are very helpful, thanks.

[riveree]

Originally Posted by wmorando

Hello All!

I currently live in Queens, NY, work on a ship and am engaged to be married in September. I am currently paying 1350/month for rent and am not happy about living in NY, but My fiance lives here and this is where we will stay until about December. WE are considering several places to live; Austin, TX area; Raleigh, NC area; Charlottesville, VA area; Asheville, NC area. I never considered living in Fl. My brother is currently visiting his wie, who also works on a ship. He called today and told me St. Augustine seems like a very nice place. I realise that Fl has no state income tax, however I don't really know anything else about it.

My fiance is afraid to go to Florida for the stereotypical reasons like: it is too hot, the people are too old, etc. I realise that it is hot, however it is hot everywhere in the summer, and in Northern florida, it cools down in the wintertime.

I would like advice and info on the area. The overall cost of living, the ups and downs of the area, real estate, renting, What people generally like and dislike about the area.

Any light shed upon this subject would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

I moved from Manhattan to St. Augustine and then finally to Jacksonville where I live now.

First I'll address some of your fiance's concerns:

HEAT: Yes, July and August are pretty dreadful here. Peak summer gets hot and humid, but really, it's barely any worse than NY. NY gets hot and humid in peak summer, it's going to feel much the same here in NorthEast Florida. The rest of the year is beautiful - Spring and Fall have perfect weather and our winter will be a breeze for you. All in all, Florida is the winner when it comes to weather (of course it is...that's why everyone moves here ).

OLD PEOPLE: The median age for St. Augustine is 41.5 years and the median age for Jacksonville is quite a bit younger at 33.8 years. St. Augustine will have more retirees, for sure. Especially as you near the beach. Jacksonville is more of a working town and we have a lot of college kids, so you'll notice the difference and Jax will have a slightly younger feel. Neither city is going to be "full of old people" as your fiance imagines, that's more of a South Florida thing.

So there are a lot of positives to moving here - the weather, the bright sunlight (no more Seasonal Affective Disorder, if you're prone), the plant and animal life is amazing, the history of the area, the easy proximity to beaches and sights to see, the laid-back lifestyle, the reasonable real estate, the clean air...

But there are some major considerations too. The pay here is very low in general. There are plenty of people making 6-figure salaries, but not like there are up North. If you make $60k up North, you might only make $30k down here. The idea is that the lack of state income tax and the lower cost of living will make up for that, but it doesn't really work out that way. Groceries cost as much or more here as they do in NY. Restaurants too. You will also have to have 2 good running cars because you will be driving everywhere and possibly long distances. You can't get by with an old jalopy here, you don't want to end up stranded (the public transportation is dismal).

The city here is spread out. Instead of the density of Queens, you'll be looking at something more akin to Rockland or Westchester at best, and Orange county in other spots. It can also be very rural here. So if you like to be out and about with people, that's not so easy to come by here.

There is entertainment here and there is culture here, but you will have to seek it out. It takes a little more effort here than it does where you are right now. If you're homebodies, you probably won't feel much difference. If you like going out to clubs and shows, you might be a little frustrated at the number of options.

Lastly, while I love St. Augustine, I think it's a better fit for retirees than for younger working people. The historic downtown and surrounds are perfect for retired folks but may wear thin for you. There is a serious lack of decent paying work there, almost all the jobs are in Jacksonville. Jacksonville is the better choice, in my opinion, for a working couple (and I've lived in both).

Definitely make plans to visit and take a look around. It's a big change from Queens .

[dogwasherpro]

Originally Posted by wmorando

I am not dead set on any one particular place. My fiance is at this point where she is not interested in Florida because she keeps thinking about the stereotypes of old retired folks, extremely high latin community, south beach party scene and hot weather all the time while raining all the time as well.

I will be honest, I don't know anything about St. Augustine, outside of the fact that it is the oldest city in the country. Is there a large retired community there? As I mentioned, I am also considering Austin, Texas area. There is obviously a fairly high latin community there. What can be the real difference in demographics compared to there?

I live just a little ways south of St Augustine. I'd say I'm in the "general area".

You absolutely will not have the typical "south beach party scene" in St Augustine. Daytona has a few periods with an influx of spring-breakers, but even then it's probably not what she's imagining and if you're not on the beach you probably wouldn't notice.

Old folks? You bet they're here. Everywhere. It's a mix though. If you're not in a retiree-magnet like "The Villages" then you'll have a real mix of kids, young couples, middle age folks, and retirees. Do not think all of Florida is the elephant burial-ground of the country. It isn't, but there are a lot of people that seem preprogrammed to retire and move to Florida, seemingly just because it's the thing to do.

The Latin "community"? Yup, there's tons here. Comes with the territory. Go to Miami and you'll have huge pockets of Cuban-Americans. Most of Florida is deep in agriculture and as can be expected there are tons of migrant workers from all over "latin america". It is what it is. Do you have to speak Spanish to order at McDonalds? Not at all...but I have been to a Holiday Inn in Opa Locka where nobody spoke English. Just like many other parts of the country there are ethnic groups that seem to settle together. Flagler county has a growing population of Russians, for example.

One thing you mentioned that pushes my buttons though is the heat. Don't let anyone fool you. It's hot here. Before anyone flames me for that I encourage them to read on. Heat and weather preferences are something that everyone looks at differently. I happen to hate the heat. 85 to me is hot. 90 is miserable. 95 makes me wonder why I don't become a Canadian. If you struggle through July-August in NY begging for the crisp fall air then Florida may not be the ideal place for you (although Jacksonville/St Augustine is far far better than most other places in the state).

Where I came from originally (another south-eastern state) it got hotter than it does here in the summer, but it generally was only for part of July and August. Here I expect it to get hot from mid-April through mid-October. Jacksonville is far enough north to get a little break, but easily you can expect to run the AC from mid-May through to October (at least during the day). On the bright side of things it isn't the same kind of miserably high-90s you can experience in Manhattan, especially with the sea-breeze.

Speaking of the sea-breeze and continuing with the weather, don't forget the hurricane factor. Should you expect a hurricane (or tropical storm) every season? Not at all. You should expect to hear people talk about stocking up on emergency supplies (which you should do), stocking up on plywood to board up windows, and publicizing evacuation plans.

Hurricane season for the south-east is June-1 to November-1. The chances of having a major category hurricane slamming into your new abode is pretty slim, but this is hurricane country and the threat is there. That threat isn't just for a big spiral-looking thing that floats over the water, it's also for the myriad of other weather phenomenon that accompany it: heavy rain, heavy wind, thunderstorms, and tornados - all of which can become problems with even small tropical systems, and even hundreds of miles from an actual hurricane.

Sounds horrible huh? It isn't. I've lost some shingles and trees over the years, but that's it. It's something you prepare for and something you live with but not something you obsess over.

Your fiance thinks it rains all the time? She's wrong. The unofficial rainy season is also (not so surprising) hurricane season, so it only rains constantly from June-November . Actually that's a lie. It isn't "constant" but you should expect the possibility of rain from June-November. Without even looking you can bet the forecast will be at least "partly cloudy 30% chance of rain" every day.

Florida has a very interesting weather system that I don't think anyone else in the country has, except possibly Hawaii. In the "rainy season" the state has a lot of heavy moist air over it. The mornings start off clear and nice, sometimes even cool. As the earth is warmed by the sun you'll start to see clouds form by 8:30-9:30 in the summer. After a few hours they'll start forming up into some really nice clouds, and depending on a lot of factors they'll grow enough to produce rain by afternoon.

One more element of that is the sea-breeze both coasts have. Breezes blow inland from the Atlantic and the Gulf coasts, pushing those clouds and that moisture in from the coasts and compressing it. The more heat and moisture you have, along with the breezes, the more chance you have for significant cloud build-ups and eventually rain, thunderstorms, or both.

Sometimes one seabreeze is much stronger than the other. On those days the rain and storms will drift across the state with the breeze. On other days the clouds and rain will just sit in one spot until the breeze dies, then they slowly drift toward the water. Along the east coast the sea breeze usually forms those lines of clouds and rain from I95-west. Sometimes you'll have extraordinarily heavy rain just west of I95, but it'll be clear along the beach.

The reason for my diatribe about the weather is simple: your fiance is partly right. If you end up living along the coast in St Augustine you won't have rain "all the time", but if you end up living just west of I95 you could well expect rain showers nearly every day.

So far I've hit you with a lot that hasn't been to positive, but I think I've been realistic. Florida does have a lot going for it. After the hurricane season you get to look forward to some pretty nice weather. Some people will whine like babies about how "cold" it is when the thermometer starts to dip into the 60s (you however have been introduced to the concept of jackets and sweaters and therefore will be will insulated against those brutal Florida temperatures). But there are in fact cold days in the winter. I've seen it linger in the 30s for days, but it isn't unusual to have a few cold days followed by a few days with highs in the 60s or even 70s during January.

There's a lot more to a place than the weather though and I've lingered on that subject far more than I should have. I think living "in general" is more relaxed than where you're coming from. There's no vehicle inspection, no emissions inspection, no personal property taxes, no state income tax, and so on.

The state is full of a diverse group of people and places. In my neighborhood there are a lot of native "southerners" like me (and some native Floridians) but also a lot of New Yorkers that sit on the front stoop and watch the neighbors in the evenings. Old habits are hard to break.

Jacksonville has it's share of tall office buildings and industry, but you don't have to go far off of I10 or I95 before you're genuinely in the country. Orlando offers tons of amusement parks that most people plan a year to go on for vacation but we can run down to just for the day (Disney World, Seaworld, Universal Studios).

Based on what I've said you might guess my main complaint about Florida is the weather, and you'd be right. If someone offered to move me, my family, and my profession to Asheville or Charlottesville (with the same equivalent pay) I'd probably very likely do it without thinking hard.

There's some of my take on it. I think most people can be happy just about anywhere under the right circumstances. Keep doing your homework, and see what fits your likes and dislikes.

[atypicalLIer]

Originally Posted by palmcoasting

To me, in the area you are talking about... you'll probably like it. The weather is going to be pretty close to what you are used to except it will be 4 months of August weather vs 1. And you won't have the harsh winter cold and dead look. You'll be in 60-70 degree weather in the winter months with a couple of cold nights that will remind you of NY.
I think St. Augustine might work for you better than Palm Coast only because you are used to the more hustle bustle type stuff of Queens. You'll love the beaches...they are gorgeous.
Pricing of food, in my opinion is higher than NY for a lot of things, such as meats and stuff but lower priced for gas and 'sin' stuff. You'll meet a lot of people from up north which tends to make you feel more at home, not necessarily New Yorkers but northerners that understand what you're talking about when you're talking about home and how things are done. You know what I mean, I'm sure. It's not culture shock in the extreme. What you will learn to do is sloooow doooown some.
Take a vacation there for a couple of days/week. Check it out.. it's really the only way you're going to know. Even if you don't like it to move to you'll have a great time!

NYer here with parents who retired to St Augustine Beach.

It's not a dreadful culture shock (as Palmcoasting has noted) as there are a fair number of northerners there. People are more relaxed, more laid back and more polite. That takes a little getting used to LOL

Food prices when compared to the tri state area are a little less. My father was very happy when the local supermarket started selling Boars Head. There's even a bagel store down there which ships bagels in from NY. I've had them and they were good. Prior to that, the local bagels were eeeeh, I think the taste of the water was what was altering the taste of the other bagels.

If you own a home, water is more expensive than in the tri state area.

Weather -- warmer than NY. In February it's a light jacket at night. It can get 'cool' there in the winter months, but I would compare it to NY in October. Summer -- ughhhh. I was there a couple of weeks ago and it was already getting hot on May 2. It is in the 80's on average now. My sibling was at the TPC a week ago and it was growing uncomfortably hot on the green. I am not a hot weather person -- this weather might sound delightful to you, so take it for what it is worth.

The beach area is touristy. It's not built up like Daytona -- there are building restrictions on how high a structure can be (good planning!) but there are number of hotels and condos along the shore. My folks live in a residential neighborhood a stone's throw from the beach. It's a lovely place. I have noticed a good mix of young and old.

The main rd through town will remind you of Northern Blvd or Queens Blvd with Palm trees, more big box stores, and lots of chain restaurants.

The old town is very cool and funky, but again -- tourist central. It's not like heading out on Bell Blvd and bar hopping. (There is only so much Ripleys, Gator farm and ghost trains one can do before it gets real old.)

Sprawl. The are is sprawled out like a lot of Nassau County. You can't just take a walk to the grocery, library, bank post office. I haven't noticed any really noteworthy public transporation like in NYC. You might need to have at least one car.

It's not "God's Waiting Room" as some people will condescendingly call Florida. St Augustine does have a nice mix of young, middle aged and old people. There are things to do, the city of Jacksonville is a doable drive if you need a city fix. The beach is great, you can drive on it (with permit) and it's smooth, not like the 4WD beach off of Smith's Point. It's a very different type of sand. It doesn't seem to get crowded, either, like Jones Beach...that in itself makes it an even bigger pleasure.

If you're young and can take the chance at a new life opportunity, it's worth it. NY is growing more expensive to live in; this might be a good opportunity for you.

[wmorando]

Thanks for all the post from everybody. There has been a lot to take in. at this point, I have a lot of info on the several places I am seriously considering.

At this point I need to sit down with my fiance and talk turkey with her and see what she really wants too and which of these places appeal to her. We are also going to plan trips to all these places as well, so she actualy gets to see each place. As I mentioned, it is not so much "finding work" that I am concerned about, as I work on a ship and as long as I live near and airport, will get flown to my ship when I have to go back to work.

Thanks again everyone for the help and advice.

[cricketfan]

Well yes, there may be more retirees living in St. Augustine than in Jacksonville on a whole but just from my own observation if you look at zip codes 32092, 32259, 32258, working families and families with school-age children far outnumber the retirees. You wont find too many retirement homes in these communities, I don't think. IMO these are people who prefer some semblance of suburban living with better schools and safer neighborhoods and may consider the 35 minute hike to Jacksonville a small price to pay. But no question, Jacksonville is where the jobs are, not in St. Augustine.