Maybe we need a casino (Jacksonville, Tampa: hotel, employment, live)

[Keith-n-Jax]

The drive to Tampa is not that far and South Florida also has a few casinos also. We do have the ships that go out.

[KerryB]

No offense to anyone, but thats a horrible idea. In an economy like this, casinos are REALLY hurting (just read about any place that has them right now). And the last thing you need is to plop a few down in a city that resides in a state who's economy is largely dependent on tourism (which is also down too) & is also hurting from the housing slump more than most other states.

To me, casinos & the like are things average people only go for when times are really good & there's money to be had, or lost, doesnt matter, its all good. But in times like this, stuff like that isnt even on people's radar, so its a very very low priority. No one can stomach to pi$$ away a couple weeks pay on just one night of fun anymore. I think those things are coming to an end as people are wising up & being smarter with their money.

Besides, I think a lot of other cities who jumped on the casino train when things were good because it was easy & lucrative are now are in deep sh*t because they have nowhere else to go. Its just not an industry you really wanna get behind because when the economy goes south, businesses like that are some of the first to go with it. Its not solid by any means.

If you really wanna build the economy, just make the city better overall & more attractive to outsiders with potential growth. No real, progressive city with real development cares about casinos & for good reason.

[psouth]

Casinos have never saved any city. Times have to be good in the city and people should want to come there in the first place. A city needs to save itself instead.

[cricketfan]

C'mon, no one is saying that a casino is the answer to a recession. A casino is a form of entertainment. In a recession all forms of entertainment suffer - from movie houses to Broadway to Disney to fine dining, you name it. Even churches are hurting. So don't single out casinos.

And to say that everyone who goes to a casino is gonna "pi$$ away a couple weeks pay" is like saying that every guy who has a couple of drinks in a bar will go home and beat the missus. The vast majority of people who gamble do it responsibly and for their own amusement. It is wrong to take an extreme example and make it the norm.

But again, if you go back and read the OP there is no reference to a recession. The suggestion is that Jacksonville needs a big draw like a casino, recession or no recession. It may be a horrible idea to some but why not come up with a bold suggestion instead of sitting around and bellyaching about boring downtown Jax. We need bold innovations other than the Landing to make downtown a destination, not adding a few lights and keeping bars open late at night.

[mango23]

Originally Posted by KerryB

No offense to anyone, but thats a horrible idea. In an economy like this, casinos are REALLY hurting (just read about any place that has them right now). And the last thing you need is to plop a few down in a city that resides in a state who's economy is largely dependent on tourism (which is also down too) & is also hurting from the housing slump more than most other states.

To me, casinos & the like are things average people only go for when times are really good & there's money to be had, or lost, doesnt matter, its all good. But in times like this, stuff like that isnt even on people's radar, so its a very very low priority. No one can stomach to pi$$ away a couple weeks pay on just one night of fun anymore. I think those things are coming to an end as people are wising up & being smarter with their money.

Besides, I think a lot of other cities who jumped on the casino train when things were good because it was easy & lucrative are now are in deep sh*t because they have nowhere else to go. Its just not an industry you really wanna get behind because when the economy goes south, businesses like that are some of the first to go with it. Its not solid by any means.

If you really wanna build the economy, just make the city better overall & more attractive to outsiders with potential growth. No real, progressive city with real development cares about casinos & for good reason.

Tough to knock what a casino can do for an area. Especially in the beginning. The construction takes upwards of a year, Provides hundreds of jobs and pumps millions into the economy. Long term at worst is still a positive. I would like to see legalized gambling state wide but that is not a reality, will never happen. Casinos are not the first to go in a bad economy, they may be the last. Even the movies are currently setting records.

[crash330]

I live near the St. Johns County Poker Room, and let me tell you, it's packed every night. I think there are certain things that thrive in all economies; gambling, alcohol, etc. The Poker Room is always busy and people still want to go out even if they're spending less. I heard a rumor that the Orange Park and St. Johns Poker rooms filed for one of the casino permits. Anyone know truth to that?

[KerryB]

Originally Posted by cricketfan

C'mon, no one is saying that a casino is the answer to a recession. A casino is a form of entertainment. In a recession all forms of entertainment suffer - from movie houses to Broadway to Disney to fine dining, you name it. Even churches are hurting. So don't single out casinos.

Yes dear, but those things you mentioned actually have some kind of value. You're eating with the dining thing, you're getting culture with the broadway thing, etc. With a casino, its basically pure entertainment & one that could possible leave you with much less money on the way out. Pretty big gamble there (pardon the pun) that more people just arent willing to make now.

Originally Posted by cricketfan

And to say that everyone who goes to a casino is gonna "pi$$ away a couple weeks pay" is like saying that every guy who has a couple of drinks in a bar will go home and beat the missus. The vast majority of people who gamble do it responsibly and for their own amusement. It is wrong to take an extreme example and make it the norm.

Everyone I know that goes to the casino takes at least a couple hundred bucks to play with. That may be small potatoes to a high roller such as yourself, but to most people thats a lot of money, esp these days. If you walk out having lost it all, thats not a good feeling. Esp when the mortgage or credit cards bills are due & you just spent what could have helped pay those on basically nothing.

Originally Posted by cricketfan

But again, if you go back and read the OP there is no reference to a recession. The suggestion is that Jacksonville needs a big draw like a casino, recession or no recession. It may be a horrible idea to some but why not come up with a bold suggestion instead of sitting around and bellyaching about boring downtown Jax. We need bold innovations other than the Landing to make downtown a destination, not adding a few lights and keeping bars open late at night.

It doesnt matter what the OP said or didnt say about a recession, Im saying it now. All one has to do is go search for some stories on casinos & how they're taking a major pounding right now & will for the foreseeable future. It doesnt take a genius to know that thats probably not an industry you wanna get behind. Dont turn Jacksonville into THAT town.

Its just funny to me that most the towns that dont have much going for them are always the first ones to say "Ahh, a casino! Brilliant!!" No, its not actually & now we're seeing why.

And I think I've given suggestions about how to improve Jax all throughout my time here, which some may work, some may not, but Im not gonna go back & list them all because thats irrelevant to the topic. But if you guys wanna be thought of as a real city, I do know that a casino is not the way to go. And thats not even counting the economic impact it'll have in a place thats already losing growth & suffering financially from the housing crash more than anywhere else. Build a couple & see what happens. If they're successful & do good things for the area, I'll come right back here & cyber-kiss your butt admitting I was wrong. But the writings on the wall already.

[mango23]

Originally Posted by KerryB

Yes dear, but those things you mentioned actually have some kind of value. You're eating with the dining thing, you're getting culture with the broadway thing, etc. With a casino, its basically pure entertainment & one that could possible leave you with much less money on the way out. Pretty big gamble there (pardon the pun) that more people just arent willing to make now.


Everyone I know that goes to the casino takes at least a couple hundred bucks to play with. That may be small potatoes to a high roller such as yourself, but to most people thats a lot of money, esp these days. If you walk out having lost it all, thats not a good feeling. Esp when the mortgage or credit cards bills are due & you just spent what could have helped pay those on basically nothing.


It doesnt matter what the OP said or didnt say about a recession, Im saying it now. All one has to do is go search for some stories on casinos & how they're taking a major pounding right now & will for the foreseeable future. It doesnt take a genius to know that thats probably not an industry you wanna get behind. Dont turn Jacksonville into THAT town.

Its just funny to me that most the towns that dont have much going for them are always the first ones to say "Ahh, a casino! Brilliant!!" No, its not actually & now we're seeing why.

And I think I've given suggestions about how to improve Jax all throughout my time here, which some may work, some may not, but Im not gonna go back & list them all because thats irrelevant to the topic. But if you guys wanna be thought of as a real city, I do know that a casino is not the way to go. And thats not even counting the economic impact it'll have in a place thats already losing growth & suffering financially from the housing crash more than anywhere else. Build a couple & see what happens. If they're successful & do good things for the area, I'll come right back here & cyber-kiss your butt admitting I was wrong. But the writings on the wall already.

The pounding you are referring to by the casinos, actually consists of them not making monumental profits they are used to. Not they are on the verge of closing the doors. They are still raking it in no matter what the economy.

[Tek_Freek]

I can't speak for Jacksonville, or Florida. I can tell you that our local casino has been on a boom since it opened (1989). The economy doesn't seem to affect it and it returns a huge amount of money to the local economy (that is required by law). It has a horse track (yawn) that draws in those that enjoy horses and the gambling revenues go up when racing is in season.

"Since 1995, Prairie Meadows has given more than $951 million through taxes, grants and charitable donations to the State of Iowa. Over $421 million of that has remained right here in our community to promote education, economic development, agriculture, jobs and tourism."

Better than some others, I'd say.

There are people in that casino spending money on gambling that should not be there. They can't afford it. On the plus side (if there is one in that situation) they are the minority.

As for spending a lot of money, I go play poker every so often. I was going once a month, but I've slacked off. $30 to play in a tournament. Lasts longer than a movie (well, usually) and is one heck of a lot of fun. If I'm feeling crazy I play a $3/$6 pot limit game ahead of the tournament (guaranteed seat in the tourney) and I usually break even or close.

There are people I see there every time I go. Some are farmers, who in the off season are looking for something to do, so they gamble. They can afford it. Some are out of work, know they are not going to find a job, and again, it's cheap entertainment. Who knows? If you outlast 120 other players you could bring home $1000.

I am not a great advocate of having casinos everywhere. I do enjoy gambling, and I am responsible when I gamble. My wife and and I almost always break even or come close, even when we spend 4 or 5 days in Vegas. We play Blackjack, and we have taken the time to understand the game so we know what to do. The last time I went to Council Bluffs and played at the Horseshoe for a couple of hours I took $100 and came home with $235. If I had lost the $100 I would not reach in my wallet, I would leave. Actually, I would more than likely leave if I lost $50.

The problem lies with people who are addicted to gambling. Quite often they are also addicted to alcohol, cigarettes, or drugs. They have an addictive personality.

[cricketfan]

Originally Posted by KerryB

Yes dear, but those things you mentioned actually have some kind of value. You're eating with the dining thing, you're getting culture with the broadway thing, etc. With a casino, its basically pure entertainment & one that could possible leave you with much less money on the way out as well.

Well no dear, that doesn't make much sense. You go to a broadway show or a fine restaurant today and it sure as heck gonna leave you with much less money on the way out. On the contrary there is a chance you just might leave the casino with a bit more cash than when you walked in. But as far as "value", who are you to decide which entertainment lacks value for someone else? You can only decide that for yourself.

But if you want to talk about value, let's talk about the megabucks that casinos pump into city and state coffers every year. Here's a city in my old neighborhood that was on the brink of bankruptcy a few years ago.

UPDATE; Yonkers Raceway Casino Rises to Top Earner - New York Times

Everyone I know that goes to the casino takes at least a couple hundred bucks to play with. That may be small potatoes to a high roller such as yourself, but to most people thats a lot of money, esp these days. If you walk out having lost it all, thats not a good feeling. Esp when the mortgage or credit cards bills are due & you just spent what could have helped pay those on basically nothing.

Well okay, let me repeat one more time: The vast majority of people who gamble do it responsibly and for their own amusement. It is wrong to take an extreme example and make it the norm." I don't suppose you would want to close all liquor stores and all the watering holes because a tiny minority of drinkers blow their entire paycheck on alcohol.

Anyway, I know that some people like yourself may be repulsed by the mere talk of a casino, I can respect that. And personally I am not under any illusion that there could ever be a casino in Jacksonville. But don't argue against it just because of gut feelings because you really have no evidence that it would be a bad idea.