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I plan to relocate w/in a years time to Jax/Neptune Beach area. Currently, I'm a Paralegal in NH, and I have about 20 years experience in Office Management & Billing, and then about 10 years experience as a Paralegal focused on: Probate, Tax, Business/Corp, Estate and Elder and Medicaid Planning...but naturally I know NH laws only. I've heard FL has some sort of "Homestead Law" that complicates EP matters, I digress...anyways, my question is, what are the odds of me finding a part-time position as a Paralegal or office manager or billing manager in a Jax Law firm. Also, I have a BA from UNH, but in the state of NH, we don't need any official "certification" proving we're Paralegals. Does FL require Paralegals to be officially certified, and if so, does anyone know how to get certified? It would probably be hard not knowing Florida Laws, but I sure know how to Probate an Estate regardless, and I can read the RSAs. If anyone can answer that specific question about Paralegals requiring a certificate would be much appreciated if anyone here knows...and how's the job market for part-time Paralegals?
Thanks, I'm new to using forums & understanding the threads, so I'll go searching for "your link in my thread", although I could google the question easily enough myself. I just thought maybe there was already a Paralegal or Attorney on the forum who'd know the answer immediately so I didn't have to exit out. I get caught up reading about Jax and the issues people bring up, and then when people debate, or worse yet, take offense even, creates an interesting read...
Mississippimagnolia: Aren't you the one that talked about having to relocate to Jax, I found your threads particularly informative. Although your concerns and circumstances are different, you asked great questions. Are you enjoying Jacksonville now? Aren't you living near or on the beach? Is it hard to make friends, but then you did come w/family. Are the natives friendly to transplants during this tough economic time? I'll be coming to Jax alone. I don't "need" a job although I'd like to have a part-time job. I have a steady income regardless of where I live, so I hope Jax will welcome me. I'll bring my own money to spend in the community, so people like me should help rather than hinder the economy in Jax I would think. I noticed a lot of posts re: the job situation here. I don't intend to step on anyones toes by taking a job away from someone, I really just want to enjoy the 2nd half of my life in Jax. If getting a part-time job isn't in the picture for me, I still want to move to Jax. Currently I live in NH on just that income, and I think my dollars will go a bit further in Florida. The rents are a lot lower than up here. There's a debate going on regarding why people keep moving to Jax, and w/o jobs lined up, etc. I just wanted to say that some people aren't coming there to work, but rather to "retire" or semi-retire. I'll be putting money into the community by paying rent, buying food, etc. and using the medical facilities there. anyways, thanks.
We aren't in Jacksonville yet. We are about 99% sure we are moving this summer. We should have a final answer on Wednesday. I think we are looking at moving the last week of June
I am a paralegal as well. I have a B.S. in Legal Studies and several years experience as a litigation paralegal. I don't know much about the job market in Jacksonville. I worked part time in Mississippi for two fantastic attorneys. I learned more working for them than I did in six years of college. After we moved, I started working as a contract paralegal. And I turned work down all the time. As the demand for legal services increases and the economy continues to tank, the need for affordable legal help has never been more urgent. My billable rate was substantially lower than the attorney rates. That allowed the attorneys to provide service to people that would not have been able to afford it otherwise.
Even up here in the DC area, there are openings for paralegals everywhere. I know several attorneys who have passed the bar and are working as paralegals simply because they like the guaranteed, steady income. There are just so many attorneys in this area competing for jobs. And many of the entry level attorney positions pay substantially less than some of the better paying paralegal jobs. Plus, paralegals are handling a lot of responsibility that were formally done by attorneys. Again, this allows private firms as well as the government to save money. It's good news for paralegals, but it does make things tougher on recent law school grads.
I am at home full time with my kids. But I do work several hours a month in our county's legal aid center. I'm not in any rush to go back to work. I'm thinking that I would like to continue working pro bono in legal aid for a few more years. I really like that I can help folks who otherwise wouldn't be able to afford legal services. And selfishly, it's great experience and it keeps me current.
Well you're certainly right about a number of things, and pointed out issues I never considered since my experience is in a different field rather than litigation. Everything I learned about the law was "on the job" since I studied English in college. I wanted to go to Law School myself but didn't have the $$ for it, plus NH has only one Law School, making it highly competitive, and I blew my LSATs cuz I was too busy ensuring my GPA stayed high. But in the end, that LSAT score speaks volumes compared to one's GPA...oh well, we always learn in hindsight. You're one hundred percent correct about us doing the bulk of the work, and my billable rate was $90 compared to their rate of $250 so, again, you're right about how much money we'd save our clients, especially on our lengthy Probate files.
Unfortunately, I worked for a "boutique" firm, specializing mainly in Estate & Elder Planning and taxes. The EP work put the bread and butter on the table, but in these tough economic times, people aren't interested in spending their money creating a Revocable Trusts or doing elder planning at the moment. It's the type of law that seems to hit the back burner when times are tough, people just don't see it as necessary or imperative. Then the tax clients are notorious for not paying their bills, after all, they wouldn't have a problem with the IRS if they had money to begin with, LOL. So we required retainers of 2K which is challenging for any person indebted to the IRS, or worse yet, if the person coming with a garnished paycheck because they ignored the problem. So in this economy, it has hurt the firm I worked for greatly, unfortunately. We don't litigate, we just file accounts w/the Probate Court or rarely push an appeal through tax court (what client has the money to pay for that type of fight against the IRS these days?). She'd have to travel from NH to Boston just for Tax Court, and you know we'd bill for the travel time alone so...you get it.
So I didn't look at the need for Paralegals such as you've described quite effectively. But I did do all the work, it's boiler plate mostly w/modifications for individual clients. The attorneys would simply meet with the clients and pass all the work to me which I thoroughly enjoyed doing! Much more than doing office managerial work (I wore several hats at our small, all female firm). A market we loved tapping into was creating Estate Plans for gays in order to protect their assets, and allowing them to remain involved in Health Care decisions w/regards to their partners. But then, very recently, NH legalized civil unions; thereby, the need for specific documentation giving them certain rights isn't as great anymore.
And I had no idea that recent law grads were snapping up Paralegal positions rather than Associate positions, but everything you said makes sense. However, an atty right after passing the bar still won't be as knowledgeable as we are with our years of experience, but again what you say makes sense, they'd pay them less than what we'd ask to be paid...hum, very interesting. So how is this good news for experienced Paralegals who CAN demand a good salary if we're to fight against recent grads who'll work for less $$? But we know how inexperienced recent grads are, it takes them time to apply what they've learned and incorporate it into the real world. So in the end, if an Atty doesn't want to mentor the associate, they're still better off spending more money on an experienced Paralegal who won't bother the Atty as much.
So it sounds like you might qualify under the grandfather rules as well, with your degree and depending on how many years of experience (I think it said over 5?). I'm sure you read how easy it is, to just get a letter from you previous employer attesting to the length of your experience/employment. I only worked for 2 law firms, one in Detroit for just a year when I was a kid of 19. I'm glad I was exposed to all those attorneys (38 Men & 2 "token" Women atty's)in the early 80's because I realized I'd garner no respect for my intellect unless I had a college degree to back me up. So while working at the firm in NH starting in 1989, I earned my degree, and stayed there up to now.
Let me know what happens with you. You're very interesting, and I hope you enjoy moving to Jax. You're getting there a lot quicker than me. I honestly thought you'd have been there by now cuz I thought some of your posts were from '09. But I'm one to talk, I can't come for almost a year yet I'm ready to pack now, LOL.
Good luck on your move. Do you know what area you're moving to? I don't know why I thought you were thinking of Atlantic Beach...I lived there as a child which is why I want to come back to Jax, and be close to the beach.
One thing that has changed over the years with regard to lawyers vs. paralegals is that lawyers have become increasingly computer proficient (the old breed that dictated FTF and couldn't type is basically retired/dead now). Our estate planning lawyer is one of the most computer proficient people I know. He simply uses his estate planning software himself to prepare the basic will/trust/etc. May give it to his secretary (who works for more than one lawyer) to clean things up and get the originals/copies ready for signing - but that's about it.
Also - there are more opportunities for potential clients to do things themselves (like handle certain kinds of divorces without a lawyer).
I think there's a greater need for paralegals in other areas of law. Robyn
I'm not at all surprised to hear that...perhaps my Probate experience will come in handy instead. I'm sure with the elderly population in Florida in general, Jax must have it's share of Estates to Probate after a death?
In NH, most attorneys are definitely self-sufficient which has really impacted "legal secretaries" much more so than Paralegals, I think. They type their own letters now, but they still don't like getting up and going to the copy machine or using to postal machine to stamp the envelope, LOL. But then a lot of documents get sent out for review as email attachments too, thereby further eliminating the need for any other personnel. There are still some tasks, that, yes, the Attys could do but simply prefer not to, especially if they know they can delegate the work and it'll get done correctly and timely. My boss just likes working on complicated Trust language only, and of course meeting the clients beforehand, and then after during the execution of the documents. Other than that, I did all the documents based on her notes from the initial meeting.
Regardless of how self-sufficient the Atty is, it ultimately depends of the type of law he/she is practicing as to whether it is profitable or not. You know how they say you can always depend on death and taxes? While the "need" for tax attorney's may be real, in our experience, it's turned out to be the least profitable area of practice considering how much time she'd end up putting in for non-paying clients. As soon as that retainer is used up, she's already in way too deep, and has an ethical obligation to continue negotiating with IRS, and it's just a hassle. We end up w/a ton of deadbeat clients, some owing as much as 10k each, and most don't even bother contacting us afterwards re: payment. Oh, God forbid they don't like the IRS's decision regarding the taxes owed, or their Offer in Compromise is denied...we definitely won't see another dime then (as if we can control the outcome...)
So as my employer kept trying to practice her "fav" type of Law, after 20 years or so, she realized how unprofitable tax law is and said NO MORE plz. Since she's one of the most established Tax atty's in the state she could remain busy, but still would remain unpaid. So how's that tax "thingy"working out for her (stealing from Sarah Pailin)? Not at all as she hoped, especially after investing in an extra year of study to get a Masters in Taxation Law. While taxes WILL be around forever, taxes are definitely not a profitable area in the legal field. Tax problems never disappear but getting paid for work done is most frustrating.
We don't dare take anyone to court for unpaid services, it could seriously backlash into a malpractice suit. So ultimately she's left holding the bag, unintentionally working pro-bono. Sure she has a heart, she took on two sad individuals last year even after she said "no more". Yes they DID come up with the retainer, but I truly doubt they'll pay their entire bills, or it'll take years. But she's a sucker for a sob story, which isn't necessarily a bad thing right?? IDK...anyways, thanks for letting me rant on about unprofitable areas of practice, and how computers are changing the scene in the neighborhood Law Firm.
Despite all the scary stuff you hear about probate - it's pretty much a piece of cake here (at least in Duval County) assuming no one is contesting anything and your lawyer isn't the person who's dealing with all the financial things (like dividing the assets). When my FIL's estate went through probate in Duval County a while back - our lawyer charged us for 10 hours time (and that included phone calls). Also - clients here are free to negotiate probate fees with lawyers (lawyers aren't entitled to a fixed % of the estate as a matter of law). Robyn
Thank you for all of the responses! I have been looking into all of the links and opportunities mentioned.
The reason I am looking at the employment opportunities in Jacksonville is that my husband's job is being transferred to Jacksonville. Since I am yet to secure employment, we need to move to Jacksonville in order for us to have at least one source of income.
Yamahastar & Jax Questions: Thank you for your advice. The State Attorney's Office and the Department of Children and Families both are great options.
NUVI: I am definitely applying with the IRS. My bachelor's degree is in accounting so I am especially drawn to that agency.
FCSL_08: I appreciate your honesty. I do not expect finding a job in this market to be easy. And to answer your question, no I did not go to Cooley.
Robyn55: I appreciate your encouragement and advice. I suppose I may have to consider a significant commute or even the possibility of my husband and I living apart for awhile. I am definitely open to "non-glamorous" work in order to gain experience and work my way up.
HParr: I would really enjoy working for the juvenile division of the public defenders office. My internship last summer was actually just that, working for the juvenile division of a public defenders office in Michigan. I hope that I can capitalize on that experience when applying for that type of position.
With a degree in accounting - I'd also look into the US Attorney's Office - and the FBI (they handle white collar crime/financial fraud/Medicare-Medicaid fraud type of stuff). A lot of FBI agents have law degrees. I'd even look to see what might be available in bankruptcy court. I would "polish up" the accounting aspect of your educational background - because that might be something that will give you an "edge". In case you don't know - Jacksonville is the "seat" for the Middle District of Florida in the federal court system. So most legal federal jobs in the district are probably here. Robyn
P.S. To Luna Bear - if you aren't currently a member of the Florida Bar - I'd get working on that ASAP. Our Bar isn't particularly friendly to out of state lawyers.
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