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Ok, I have to ask, how is the employee fully informed as compared to the employer's ability to call past employers? It may be the employers past employees aren't on linked in.
Networking does not mean linkedin. It means talking to everyone you meet. Talk to people in line in the grocery store, talk to your sister's friend's co-worker. Get to know people so that you have at least a single connection at any company. Just keep asking around. People enjoy helping other people out.
Location: Stuck on the East Coast, hoping to head West
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You can....I agree with the other posts advising to ask questions during the interview, try to talk to current employees, etc. Some of the questions that I've asked during the interview process have yielded far more information about a company than I'd anticipated:
1) some variation of what happened to the person who held the position I'm applying for and how long did they hold the position? Along those lines, what's the natural progression of the job. Once, the interviewer told me that the person I'd be replacing was transferred to Michigan (I'm currently on the east coast) and I'd be headed there, too, in about 18 months since they were eventually moving the entire office there. This wasn't mentioned anywhere in the ad.
2) How long has the position been available?
3) What do you see as this company's greatest challenge? One interviewer actually told me they were struggling with high turnover and low morale.
4) I always use the service or buy the product if at all possible. At the very least, I make up a reason to visit or call--helps me get a feel for the company.
5) I always ask the person interviewing me why they work there, how they chose that company over all the others, etc. You would be surprised at how candid people can be.
Just as you will only provide good references when asked, the potential employer is only going to provide good references if you ask. So while you could ask, and they might oblige you, it's still worthless information. If you want to know about the company, do your own work, don't expect them to do it for you. There are websites where employees can input information. And you can ask your professional peers if they have opinions about the company's culture.
During the interview process you can ask to tour the facility or meet the team you will be working with. You don't have to ask outright what it is like to work for the company. Take note of the 'temperature' of the office as you walk around. Are people huddled at their cubicles or freely collaborating? Do the potential coworkers seem stiff and nervous or relaxed and happy.
I guess I am fascinated that anyone would think they have to ask a company for employee references. You don't have to ask for that-- you can just do your own research and ask your network.
I am like kodaka here you can learn A LOT by observing folks during your own interview or even asking the receptionist or someone pointed questions such as how do you like working here. If you have ay people skills you can tell if the answer is canned.
Long ago, I once interviewed for a company that sold computer training-- i.e. CCNA, A++, Microsoft engineer certs, etc.
I thought the interviews were hokey. I remember going in and there was a huge group interview that was more sales presentation than anything else. Then the questions that the sales managers asked were equally hokey, but I needed a job so I figured I can hack it.
I came back to sit with an employee and basically watch the job. The person they had me sitting with had been there no more than 3 months and she was nervous to have me chit chatting and asking questions because she had to get on the phone and bang out calls. PERIOD.
While sitting with her, I heard a manager walking on the floor asking an employee why they had not removed a plant from their desk. She then said "remember we have stated no more than one personal item at the desk and you already have a picture."
I knew right then and there-- NO WAY would I go to work there.
I have interviewed at places where I could tell people were busy and had some anxious energy due to their roles, but you could tell they "liked" their company and job.
While I really do appreciate the helpful suggestion about networking, this is not the same as calling past employees.
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Originally Posted by hnsq
It means talking to everyone you meet..
I would like to talk to past employees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
Talk to people in line in the grocery store,
Wish they were past employees.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
talk to your sister's friend's co-worker.
Did she work there previously?
Again I say, if the employer knows the past employees will be called, there would be a lot less shenanigans going on than there is today!
I really do appreciate the sincere efforts of those who attempted to address the question in the best way possible and who did answer the question in their own way. Let me restate the question, this time with emphasis for anyone else who might want to also address the need for what I'm proposing or perhaps even have an idea about making it an accepted regular practice.
Potential employers certainly check potential employees' stories by calling their past employers. Shouldn't it work both ways? Shouldn't a potential employee check potential employers' stories by calling past employees?
While I really do appreciate the helpful suggestion about networking, this is not the same as calling past employees.
I would like to talk to past employees.
Wish they were past employees.
Did she work there previously?
Again I say, if the employer knows the past employees will be called, there would be a lot less shenanigans going on than there is today!
You don't seem to be getting it. Past employees ARE called today. The vast majority of people I know perform informational interviews. You just have to put the effort into it. No one is going to hand you a magic list of people to call to be successful in a job hunt. It is called research. Personally, I spend about 10-15 hours on each job I apply to (between informational interviews, networking, writing a new resume, writing a new cover letter). Finding a job takes effort. No one is going to simply hand you a list of who to call. Do research for yourself.
You don't seem to be getting it. Past employees ARE called today. The vast majority of people I know perform informational interviews. You just have to put the effort into it. No one is going to hand you a magic list of people to call to be successful in a job hunt. It is called research. Personally, I spend about 10-15 hours on each job I apply to (between informational interviews, networking, writing a new resume, writing a new cover letter). Finding a job takes effort. No one is going to simply hand you a list of who to call. Do research for yourself.
I believe the "banging head against brick wall" icon is required here.
Sure I do. We're just looking at it from two different perspectives, which is ok. I value what you're saying and really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
No one is going to hand you a magic list of people to call
That is kind of my point. Employees hand employers that magic list containing past companies worked for, names, address, phone number. I want the same list! Handed to me! On a silver platter! Engraved! Delivered to my front door! Just as employees provide to employers!
Quote:
Originally Posted by hnsq
It is called research.
I'm proposing a new way. The 'Lists are traded' way. Save the prospective employee some time. After all, the employee will be providing the employer with a service and spending a lot of time with the employer. It's an equal trade-off. Therefore, there should be an equal trade-off of information, without one party having to work for the list of contacts.
I'm proposing a new way. The 'Lists are traded' way. Save the prospective employee some time. After all, the employee will be providing the employer with a service and spending a lot of time with the employer. It's an equal trade-off. Therefore, there should be an equal trade-off of information, without one party having to work for the list of contacts.
Well, you certainly have your work cut out for you in changing an accepted employment practice which has been in effect for at least 100 years and probably more. Good luck and do advise in what journals of learning and research your theses are published.
Sure I do. We're just looking at it from two different perspectives, which is ok. I value what you're saying and really appreciate the opportunity to talk with you about this.
That is kind of my point. Employees hand employers that magic list containing past companies worked for, names, address, phone number. I want the same list! Handed to me! On a silver platter! Engraved! Delivered to my front door! Just as employees provide to employers!
I'm proposing a new way. The 'Lists are traded' way. Save the prospective employee some time. After all, the employee will be providing the employer with a service and spending a lot of time with the employer. It's an equal trade-off. Therefore, there should be an equal trade-off of information, without one party having to work for the list of contacts.
You are trying to work for THEM. They don't owe you a thing. It shouldn't be an equal tradeoff. An employer needs you more than you need them, so you have to work harder. If you don't like it, start your own company.
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