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Old 11-29-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,492 posts, read 12,647,333 times
Reputation: 12110

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Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2 View Post
What will eventully happen is no one will train for these jobs anymore because there will no longer be money in them. This is the starting point of decending into 2nd world. Then the infrastructure that was built on the american know how will crumble and we will decend into 3rd world.
People have to train for something. If everything is going down the toilets, at least a skilled or trainable position will offer a few bucks more. People can't just opt out of not working in most cases. And the infrastructure won't crumble. If there is no one in the country to do the work, then the skilled workers will just be exported in. Still a better country to live in then where they came from. They will still be poor, but being poor here is much better than being poor where they came from. This is a battle that honest American's just can't win unless, unless they put up or shut up. And just as an example... China built a bridge and is sending it to California to be slapped together. Yup, American's themselves are rather irrelevant at this point.



Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
If the guy thinks he is worth $15/hr, then why would he take $10/hr. Can't blame him. I will assume he knows the market rate for the position and let's assume the market rate is $15/hr. If it is, then his goal will be to find something paying market rate. If the market rate has fallen, then he will soon realize this and he will then accept a lower rate at some point in the future, or change careers or retire.
Problem is a lot of people are worth more than what they are getting offered, or currently working for. The reason is there is always some other desperate job seeker out there willing to work to starve. This is a race to the bottom, and eventually the working class will no longer have the means to consume.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:15 PM
 
Location: Metro DC area
4,541 posts, read 3,396,094 times
Reputation: 1279
I have no problem with this CL post. I hope the folks who placed the ad sees it and are ashamed. Not everyone is going to gladly bend over and take it. Good for him.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
11,492 posts, read 12,647,333 times
Reputation: 12110
Quote:
Originally Posted by wheelsup View Post
That's not whining that is helping others out. He is informing them that that is a ridiculous wage and if they are interested in doing something like that come to ND where you make 3x-5x as much. Good for him, personally I think he exhibits a good attitude thru the entire post as well.

As someone who also operates machinery and whos profession is also lowballed more often than not "just to get experience", I have seen the "getting on the payroll is the hard part" first hand. It doesn't work out, you are stuck there making crap wages for a long time in jobs like these. Maybe for a white collar job where you can climb the corporate ladder (although after seeing what my wife goes thru with corporate politics I gladly do what I do) it might work but not for labor jobs.
As a young person duking it out in the private sector, it's an absolute shame. I see kids my age getting started in their careers going nowhere, and that's if they are lucky. Companies don't care about quality, they care about getting the workers as cheap as possible. The cheaper they'll work, the more crap they put up with, and the more they expect the decent workers to carry the dead weight. The private sector is so backwards these days. No reward for top of the line workers, but they'll bend over for minimum wage labor and all their follies.

I've spent my days working on heavy machinery. What always amazes me... The boss will shell out 500K on a new machine, and put a $10/hr operator in front of it and expect smooth sailing. Never happens, and the bosses never learn. When a machine isn't running, because said operator destroys everything inside, that is time spent not paying towards the interest on the loan. That is lost cash flow. That is an order not being delivered to the customer on time. That is also 1K shelled out to have a service tech fix the damage, and possibly more. Anyone ever thought that if they paid $15/hr to get a decent worker, they might do better with the honest profit?

Makes ya wonder... What are they teaching in business school these days? The easy answer is to play race to the bottom and destroy the wage structure. The hard answer is actually offering goods and services worth paying a fair price for. Seems everyone pushed the easy button and here we are today... I myself am very willing to pay good money for good products. The problem is, they don't make them anymore!
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:34 PM
 
11,500 posts, read 13,668,559 times
Reputation: 6911
An employer might offer a better wage to get better applicants, more to choose from, as well as to keep such employees in an improving economy.
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:42 PM
 
4,472 posts, read 4,953,807 times
Reputation: 1997
Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
People have to train for something. If everything is going down the toilets, at least a skilled or trainable position will offer a few bucks more. People can't just opt out of not working in most cases. And the infrastructure won't crumble. If there is no one in the country to do the work, then the skilled workers will just be exported in. Still a better country to live in then where they came from. They will still be poor, but being poor here is much better than being poor where they came from. This is a battle that honest American's just can't win unless, unless they put up or shut up. And just as an example... China built a bridge and is sending it to California to be slapped together. Yup, American's themselves are rather irrelevant at this point.





Problem is a lot of people are worth more than what they are getting offered, or currently working for. The reason is there is always some other desperate job seeker out there willing to work to starve. This is a race to the bottom, and eventually the working class will no longer have the means to consume.
Truely skilled workers dont exist outside of the USA and europe and maybe a small handfull of other places. Also people will not train in difficult to learn trades or work that is hard for a few bucks more an hour, if the big money is not there they can just work at mcdonalds for 8-9$/hr.

Infrastructure built in china will colapse plain and simple, everything they make is low grade, especially at an industrial level. Also why is being poor here any better than where they came from? Once cops are paid in dounuts they will be just as corrupt as where these workers came from, it will all be the same. What makes this nation great is its wealth, once that is gone there will be little distinction between us and mexico.

The only thing that will pay then is crime and it will be rampant with little enforcement. Its already happening in Cali with pot growers. People will follow the money and it will be in arms and drugs. The crime will be more brutal against law enforcement, people wont just lay down and put on hand cuffs after running through a field, you will see highly trained people that were low balled in the market place offer up services in criminal enterprise and once its big enough they wont tolerate law enforcement interfering and the criminals will have more training than the cops.

Just look at russia, the crime networks control most of the country and will so for the next several decades to come and possibly longer. Law enforcement will be looked at as the enemy of the state because they back the marketeers and the "employers". In criminal enterprise you do what you want, you dont apply for permits you dont pay taxes you just make money hand over fist. You will either take the chance of getting shot in criminal enterprise or the risk of starving or dieing from the elements working for peanuts for "employers" that will be the choice in the future.

So maybe learning skills will still be good, just not to use for "employers". Just wait until port security can no longer stop people from blowing up container ships from china right in the port. Everything is remaining status quo becuase of our draconian FBI and other law enforcement and people are not quite squeezed hard enough yet. 10-15/hr is still enough for the basics and to have sex with your wife so your not going to risk your life yet, the marketeers are starting to skirt that edge though.

Last edited by highlife2; 11-29-2011 at 02:59 PM..
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Old 11-29-2011, 02:56 PM
 
9,886 posts, read 19,017,117 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andywire View Post

Makes ya wonder... What are they teaching in business school these days? The easy answer is to play race to the bottom and destroy the wage structure. The hard answer is actually offering goods and services worth paying a fair price for. Seems everyone pushed the easy button and here we are today... I myself am very willing to pay good money for good products. The problem is, they don't make them anymore!
You got that right. I spend my time off poking around at estate sales. This last one picked up an old Craftsman 2 hp chainsaw made by Poulan. Back in the day (25 years ago) it was the bottom of the line saw but these days, compared to the crap put out now, it's light years ahead. Just took it apart and looked at the cylinder, this thing was USED HARD for its life. Cylinder looks great no big scoring, the ring looks good compression is fine. Cleaned the carb put fresh gas in it and fired it right up. The case is magnesium (that's metal for those who don't know) and the cylinder has "Made in USA" forged into it.

Same thing for my hedge trimmer, also an estate sale item. Picked it up for $8 and it is far and above nicer than any of the junk made today. Again "Made in USA" printed right on the side.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:42 PM
 
9,886 posts, read 19,017,117 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by highlife2 View Post
Truely skilled workers dont exist outside of the USA and europe and maybe a small handfull of other places.
I disagree China, Taiwan, and Mexico and their workers are perfectly capable of producing quality products.

China - products have recently been up spec'd there with machinery shipped from the US that allows to production of high quality products. In the past the quality was low to meet a price point. Nowadays, the products are designed to be high quality at a higher quality price. Chinese products in some cases meet or exceed their American counterparts in both price and quality these days. Typically, however, products that are made in China have been relegated to the lower end consumer grade stuff like pots, hammers, etc.

Taiwan - any higher end electronic device these days most likely is made in Taiwan, along with other higher end products with many moving parts.

Mexico - Latinos are incredible craftsman and in the trades produce high quality work, such as welding, construction, etc.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:49 PM
 
6,203 posts, read 6,348,817 times
Reputation: 3074
I didn't read the whole thread, however if it is a CDL which means tractor trailer driving then I have an issue with paying someone chicken feed for driving a multi ton vehicle on our streets. There is skill involved with that job more so than many back seat drivers think.
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:54 PM
 
6,203 posts, read 6,348,817 times
Reputation: 3074
I remember a couple years ago an ad was placed for a fuel truck driver to drive a manual shift fuel truck, able to lift heavy hose and fuel jets. This was thru a contractor at Reagan National Airport, all for a grand total of $10 an hour. What the hell is going on!
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Old 11-29-2011, 04:59 PM
 
9,886 posts, read 19,017,117 times
Reputation: 8567
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
I remember a couple years ago an ad was placed for a fuel truck driver to drive a manual shift fuel truck, able to lift heavy hose and fuel jets. This was thru a contractor at Reagan National Airport, all for a grand total of $10 an hour. What the hell is going on!
All the ground crew at Reagan National are foreign, I would guess 70% from Ethiopia.
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