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Then there are other forms too like discrimination against those who are unemployed, out of state, with kids... some of these things can't legally be used as a factor, but there are definitely cases of this.
And it goes on because it is hard to prove and that is why it is done. They know its hard to prove so they feel entitled to do whatever.
And it goes on because it is hard to prove and that is why it is done. They know its hard to prove so they feel entitled to do whatever.
Yep, in order to prove discrimination nowadays you literally need it in writing or recorded that 'so and so didn't get the job because of their age/race/gender. And yes, 'they' know as long as it cant be definitively proven any bs reason can be given.
The hiring process is so complicated because there's a gigantic pool of job seekers compared to the number of job openings.
To imagine what it like for a hiring manager, imagine that you're a guy and you have 100 women who you've never met and who want to date you. You don't have time to go on dates with all of them, you probably care to go on a date with most of them, and among such a large group you can probably find one who meets your ideal preferences. So you devise an application process that narrows the pool down to about 5 who are close to your ideal preference, then you take your time and run those 5 through a rigorous screening including STD tests and credit checks.
The hiring process is so complicated because there's a gigantic pool of job seekers compared to the number of job openings.
To imagine what it like for a hiring manager, imagine that you're a guy and you have 100 women who you've never met and who want to date you. You don't have time to go on dates with all of them, you probably care to go on a date with most of them, and among such a large group you can probably find one who meets your ideal preferences. So you devise an application process that narrows the pool down to about 5 who are close to your ideal preference, then you take your time and run those 5 through a rigorous screening including STD tests and credit checks.
Wow.
I'm a hiring manager. It's not at all like that for me.
Clever, though, how you've managed to combine two of your favorite topics into one ridiculous post.
How much do you take appearance into your hiring considerations?
Speaking for myself, only a little. I do take dress and presentation into account when hiring, because these are indicators of how the employee will dress and present themselves on the job.
I have hired some powerfully ugly people in my time though. If they can do the job, I am not going to let a minor thing such as their innate physical appearance stop me from offering them a position.
How much do you take appearance into your hiring considerations?
Are you referring to their physical appearance, as in how physically fit or attractive they are, or their personal appearance such as grooming and dress? I don't pay much attention, if any at all, to the physical. I'm hiring IT professionals, not models. The grooming and dress question is an interesting one. When I was back on the east coast, showing up for an interview without being dressed professionally was a faux pas that rarely happened. When I moved to AZ I had to get used to the fact that it's not that formal here, and candidates rarely even wear a tie. I still think it's better to dress professionally, and it does give a point or two to an applicant in my view if they take the time to do so.
I feel like with every job I apply for, interview for, and wait for it takes almost a whole month just to get some feedback. As of right now my ONLY lead for a job will be Target, but I'm disappointed that it's just a seasonal sales team member job. Almost two weeks ago I interviewed TWICE in ONE day, then the following Monday I was interviewed AGAIN then I took the drug test right after and passed my background check and then I got their email about orientation, but I haven't heard the H.R. phone call. So I decided to call them instead and now they aren't going to conducting a job orientation at all this week.
What happened to those days where all it took was a paper job application, a 5 minute talk, and a hand shake? Then most of the time nowadays you have to end up calling them because employers never call you back.
I feel like I'm all alone in this situation sometimes because most of my peers got jobs so quickly.
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B.B.C.420: Since I have no idea surrounding the circumstances regarding your case, I cannot advise you as to what happend nor explain why your peers got hired so quickly...and not you. But I can offer a scenario of what can happen during the recruit-to-fill process. This is with the firm I worked for...a very large one with offices around the world. I have worked both in the Continental U.S. (CONUS) locations, and overseas (Japan, Korea, Germany, The Netherlands, etc).
Two main hurdles to be cleared before someone can be hired:
LEGAL MATTERS: Eligibility: Is the applicant legally eligible to work in the U.S.?
Does the applicant meet all other employment criteria with the company?
Compliance: Has the company recruiting to fill a position complied with all regulatory and legal requirements and EEO guidelines regarding the recruitment action?
THE SELECTION/HIRING PROCESS ITSELF: 1) Does the applicant meet at least, the minimum qualifications & other requirements of the position to be filled (i.e., educational, if required)?
2) If Special Hiring authority or program is being used to fill the position, does the applicant meet the criteria to be considered under this Special authority or program?
3) Generally, it is not enough to just be "minimally qualified"...particularly if there are other well qualified candidates. So the applicant may have to go through another level of qualification evaluation...to be matched with other qualified applicants. Part of that process can include the interview. Once the interview is completed....the selecting supervisor will then go over the list of highly qualified candidates for selection. A second interview may be required...to narrow down the selection process even more. It would be wise to make more than one selection (we did, where I worked at)...just in case, the first selectee turns down the offer or is not able to accept the job. Then the HR team can move right on to the 2nd selectee to make an offer. Saves a lot of time this way.
4) After the selection is made...and the candidate accepts the offer...a start date is negotiated. Additional paperwork may be required so the selected candidate would have to complete them and submit them before the agreed upon start date. If the job requires background check, security clearance, etc., this may delay the actual start date even more. If the job is overseas (where I was most of the 20 plus years I worked in HR), expect more processing...relocation, passports, etc., etc....and more delay.
Even with all the modern hi-tech automated hiring programs we have, it may take up to 30 to 60 days to bring someone on board within CONUS...depending on level of clearance required, any relocation involved, etc. Overseas...i've done it as fast as 30 days from from the day the job ad was posted until start date. That's rare. The longest time it took me to fill a position overseas was about 65 days. Sometimes it depends on individual circumstances with the applicant/candidate. Some, are easier to process than others.
Now you know why it can take a seemingly inordinate amount of time to get hired. I always let the applicant know what's going on with the hiring process...upon receipt of application, sometime half way in the process, and at the end...after the selection is made. And sometimes, more often...depends if we need additional information from the applicant. All done on line/via internet or by telephone. Nothing to it...so I don't understand why some firms are so negligent in this area. Keep in mind...even after a start date has been agreed upon...anything can happen along the way that even a firm offer can be withdrawn. But..the applicant must be informed...and given the reasons for whatever action the company decided upon.
We, that's my HR staff...see to it that job offer withdrawals do not happen too often. And I stress from my staff...to render the highest level of courtesy and timeliness when it comes to letting applicants know what's happening with their application. I don't know much about smaller firms in the U.S....but be it a 10-person business firm, or a company with 10,000 employees...the quality and level of customer care/service should always be the same...EXCELLENT!
Are you referring to their physical appearance, as in how physically fit or attractive they are, or their personal appearance such as grooming and dress? I don't pay much attention, if any at all, to the physical. I'm hiring IT professionals, not models. The grooming and dress question is an interesting one. When I was back on the east coast, showing up for an interview without being dressed professionally was a faux pas that rarely happened. When I moved to AZ I had to get used to the fact that it's not that formal here, and candidates rarely even wear a tie. I still think it's better to dress professionally, and it does give a point or two to an applicant in my view if they take the time to do so.
The thing is, I know some employers who still believe in gender roles, that only men should do certain jobs and only women should do certain jobs. It could be because they feel women will be more submissive to their demands, or that a man has more strength to handle the responsibilities, or because the employer or clients want to have eye candy to look at.
So, considering we're having this discussion with the anonymity of the internet (no one's knows enough about your personal life or professional occupation to sue you), if you were hiring for, say, the position of an Administrative Assistant or a Receptionist (this person will greet your guests, answer your telephones, run your errands and ditate your correspondences), would you ever honestly hire a perfectly qualified male for the position, or you would be looking for a good-looking female (even if they're not the brightest bulb in the box) for this position?
Just as well, if your company needed someone to, say, do the landscaping, would you honestly ever hire a perfectly qualified female into the position, or would you hold out for a muscle-bound male (even if they're not the brightest bulb in the box) for this position?
Are you referring to their physical appearance, as in how physically fit or attractive they are, or their personal appearance such as grooming and dress? I don't pay much attention, if any at all, to the physical. I'm hiring IT professionals, not models. The grooming and dress question is an interesting one. When I was back on the east coast, showing up for an interview without being dressed professionally was a faux pas that rarely happened. When I moved to AZ I had to get used to the fact that it's not that formal here, and candidates rarely even wear a tie. I still think it's better to dress professionally, and it does give a point or two to an applicant in my view if they take the time to do so.
I'm willing to bet AZ is less formal because wearing a suit at 100+ degrees isn't really the most comfortable thing to do. And yes, I live in AZ and know how hot it gets even before the dog days of summer.
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