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Old 06-26-2012, 01:14 PM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 11,606,871 times
Reputation: 3129

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Quote:
Originally Posted by X14Freak View Post
You are definitely an exception. A lot of companies just outsource reference checks to companies like Kroll and let them call the references listed. The vast majority of employers are very lazy with reference checks and don't even bother to put in the effort you do. Of course, there are some companies (like Private Equity firms and the US Foreign Service) where the reference checks are very extensive (far more extensive than what you do) but again they are the exception rather than the norm. I should also say a lot of companies don't even bother to contact the references and just do a simple employment verification and sometimes not even that. This is probably why a lot of people risk lying on their resumes.
And we do it because we HAVE caught people lying this way. It helps us know that if we are getting consistent info from the people they WANT us to check and from those they would rather we didn't. It is also good to see what the people they don't want us to check will say. A bad reference is in the eye of the beholder. If we are super strict about OT (which we are as people already work a lot of scheduled hours so we prefer they not go over the schedules) and we talk to a former manager who complains that this employee was terrible because they were always expecting to leave work on time, well, that is a good thing for us.

We are also upfront about it and tell applicants any employer is fair game when we ask for references. We have had people withdraw the application at that point. And it really isn't that hard. For example, an applicant didn't get along with a former boss and gives a couple of coworker references from a different job. That coworker, if asked if the person had ever mentioned the previous job will often volunteer a LOT of info. So, we know the name of the former boss, we call the location listed on the resume and ask to speak to the person. Done.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:25 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,850 times
Reputation: 3336
You sound like you have some major issues with employees and candidates looking for work. The way you describe this whole process it comes off very confrontational and combative. I would withdraw my application too if your company interviewed me. Are you serious???

You're just digging for dirt on people and feeding on negativity. Your company is opening itself to potential employment lawsuits. "Done."
LOL
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:31 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,850 times
Reputation: 3336
A psychologically normal, socially functioning person comes to an interview looking for work...to contribute to a company's success and to support himself and/or a family. Nobody wants to be grilled to the bone and cross examined like it's the Inquisition. Of course there are credit, reference and other necessary background checks, as well as drug tests for appropriate jobs that require such. But some places (and individuals) really take all this way too far.

In my investigations, I have encountered and researched more pathological companies than I have candidates looking for work/employees.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:36 PM
 
Location: Chicago area
8,797 posts, read 13,284,781 times
Reputation: 15937
I agree everyone has someone who doesn't like them or wouldn't say nice things about them. That doesn't make someone a poor employee any more than the stuff a disgruntled former employee says about your company makes your company a bad one to work for. You should not be proud of being able to dig up dirt on someone nor be under the delusion that you saved your company from a bad hire. If it is a pattern that is different. Most people like myself have more people that would say nice things than bad.

Myself after one of my colleagues from grad school warned me that the PI was giving her undeserved bad references I hired a service to check out what he was saying about me. It turns out that despite me also leaving him on good terms he was bashing me every chance he got. The man is simply a sadist with tenure. Needless to say I never use him as a reference.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:40 PM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 11,606,871 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique13 View Post
You sound like you have some major issues with employees and candidates looking for work. The way you describe this whole process it comes off very confrontational and combative. I would withdraw my application too if your company interviewed me. Are you serious???

You're just digging for dirt on people and feeding on negativity. Your company is opening itself to potential employment lawsuits. "Done."
LOL
Not at all. The company follows the same process on all candidates and the process is disclosed.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:41 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,850 times
Reputation: 3336
Further, the interviewing process is a two way street. Angry and paranoid managers are easy to diagnose at interviews.You observe the body language, ask the right questions, and they get defensive. There is plenty of info both online and in the business research libraries on companies that the candidate can pull up,if they really want to and if such person has the skills. Some lawsuits are public record; all you have to do is go to the court clerk or pull it up online.

Digging for dirt is easy with the Internet.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:42 PM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 11,606,871 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique13 View Post
A psychologically normal, socially functioning person comes to an interview looking for work...to contribute to a company's success and to support himself and/or a family. Nobody wants to be grilled to the bone and cross examined like it's the Inquisition. Of course there are credit, reference and other necessary background checks, as well as drug tests for appropriate jobs that require such. But some places (and individuals) really take all this way too far.

In my investigations, I have encountered and researched more pathological companies than I have candidates looking for work/employees.
Well, the only ones we have encountered who have a real issue with it are those who were not truthful at some point in the process. So, I have to wonder why you think this would be such a big deal? Truthful on application and resume, and there is no problem.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,850 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by MSchemist80 View Post
I agree everyone has someone who doesn't like them or wouldn't say nice things about them. That doesn't make someone a poor employee any more than the stuff a disgruntled former employee says about your company makes your company a bad one to work for. You should not be proud of being able to dig up dirt on someone nor be under the delusion that you saved your company from a bad hire. If it is a pattern that is different. Most people like myself have more people that would say nice things than bad.

Myself after one of my colleagues from grad school warned me that the PI was giving her undeserved bad references I hired a service to check out what he was saying about me. It turns out that despite me also leaving him on good terms he was bashing me every chance he got. The man is simply a sadist with tenure. Needless to say I never use him as a reference.
That's exactly my point. Some people hold grudges. Others suffer from bipolar mania and misunderstand things. Others want to sleep with you and you don't feel the same way.

You will encounter someone at your workplace who will hate you no matter how good you work. That person may turn out to be your boss or manager. Maybe you remind him or her of an ex-spouse too much. People can be seriously weird and F*d up sometimes.

So, does that mean you have to have this stigma for the rest of your life that is supposed to follow you and lay a curse on your future success?? Nope.
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Old 06-26-2012, 01:54 PM
 
Location: The City That Never Sleeps
2,043 posts, read 4,859,850 times
Reputation: 3336
Quote:
Originally Posted by thebunny View Post
Well, the only ones we have encountered who have a real issue with it are those who were not truthful at some point in the process. So, I have to wonder why you think this would be such a big deal? Truthful on application and resume, and there is no problem.

Then I expect the company to be truthful about its profit making schemes; about why the position is open; about why there is such a high turnover rate. The company is not absolved of being truthful in its hiring process. If the manager is Satan, I expect it to be gracefully revealed in the interview by asking the candidate if such candidate can deal with "difficult people." The companies feel entitled to sainthood while the candidate is grilled to death on an Inquisition rack??? Really?

It is counter productive to give a hateful manager or boss as a reference. Most people with half a brain will not do that. Anybody who feeds off of or tries to get negative references is opening themselves to a lawsuit. I think I said that before? It's just a matter of time.
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Old 06-26-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: California
4,402 posts, read 11,606,871 times
Reputation: 3129
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystique13 View Post
Then I expect the company to be truthful about its profit making schemes; about why the position is open; about why there is such a high turnover rate. The company is not absolved of being truthful in its hiring process. If the manager is Satan, I expect it to be gracefully revealed in the interview by asking the candidate if such candidate can deal with "difficult people." The companies feel entitled to sainthood while the candidate is grilled to death on an Inquisition rack??? Really?

It is counter productive to give a hateful manager or boss as a reference. Most people with half a brain will not do that. Anybody who feeds off of or tries to get negative references is opening themselves to a lawsuit. I think I said that before? It's just a matter of time.
I am curious as to where in the world you think there would ever be grounds for a lawsuit? The process is disclosed, there is NO law anywhere barring employers from telling the truth about an employee. There is no discrimination, as EVERYONE goes through the same process and no one is hired, no matter who referred them, until at least one "non mentioned" reference is called.

So, unless you are referring to a frivolous lawsuit filed by someone who didn't get the job and decides to make up a reason, which is a risk anywhere, it would appear you are not all that well versed in ACTUAL reasons to sue but rather think that if it makes you unhappy, then sue. I also think this mentality is pretty clear in the "I don;t like what the other poster has said in the thread so attack them" mentality that has already been shown.....hmmmmmm
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