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Old 07-15-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,444,775 times
Reputation: 2506

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
Folks who promote corporate excess and profits above all else are never overpaid - just ask them! No, clearly they all got to where they are entirely because of their own actions - luck never factors into anything, ever. See also "The Just World Fallacy" and you'll have a better idea what you're up against when trying to explain the fact that promoting a dog-eat-dog world only leads to survival of the most bloodthirsty and sneaky individuals.

Yep, I'm one of the people who "retrained for the new economy" hence I have two degrees and am still paying for one.
They never think you did all the right things. It's a one-size-fits-all thing for what they did should work for everyone else, despite the myriad of variables.
They never think for a minute that when you go into fields that are in demand and work well with your nature, that they can be filled up in a few years because schools are pushing people into those vacancies.
I took jobs no one wanted. I moved around the country to stay employed. I worked in dangerous areas. I did jobs others shunned. But I learned that a saturated job market
becomes a revolving door. Besides wages going down, everyone got worked harder and harder. Coworkers got more and more cutthroat.

They don't want to believe that schools and career gurus are constantly looking for the "next big thing" to push people into. It's all about the money.

They don't want to believe that good, hard-working, honest people got cr****d on because then it means the world isn't fair. And that scares them.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:39 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,088,173 times
Reputation: 7282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
And there are 4.5 people per job opening, and that's counting all the fake "jobs" and companies are flat-out refusing to hire: the unemployed, the "old" (can start as early as 30), and so on.

No matter how much you "retool" you are NOT going to be able to get past those barriers (unless you happen to be related to somebody in power), and no matter how much you shuffle around the musical chairs, you still end up with at least 3.5 people out of work once that one guy gets hired.
Simple: We need to become the world's BEST climate to grow business in. Not 2nd, 3rd, or 23rd,..FIRST.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:41 PM
 
Location: USA
7,478 posts, read 5,799,543 times
Reputation: 12323
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
wrong. Discrimination cannot occur when there is a valid business reason, and courts have ruled layoffs by expense of payroll are a valid reason. Discrimination is by nature, done against folks for reasons intrinsic to them.from birth.
Discrimination is when people are marginalized (not hired, paid poorly, etc.) or forbidden from opportunities (such as employement) because of factors they cannot control, such as age, health, race, and gender. And what alternate reality court are you quoting, because here on Earth there are actual laws that forbid age discrimination, discrimination against the handicapped, etc. Now, sure, they aren't enforced well, but to claim that those folks are "not being discriminated against" does not in any way match current laws or common sense.

If you really think a company isn't going to cut people based totally on expenses, than I really have to wonder where you live and work, because it's clearly not America. No, corporations do not CARE if you work hard - they will still cut you anyway. Maybe you've dodged this bullet so far, but to claim that it's not happening is to ignore reality and basically call everyone else a liar just because it hasn't happened yet to you.

Oh, yes... here we go ago - the "best environment for business." And once we just let big business do whatever they want (by naturally getting rid Obama, despite the fact I already proved he's just another corporate stooge a few days ago), and let them run wild, which of the following will most likely happen:

1) Corporations will happily return to hiring Americans, rebuild our shattered economy, and bring back the glory days, despite Americans still costing a lot more than slave labor (China, visa workers, illegals, etc.)

2) We'll have a rehash of the last time we let big business run wild - the Housing Bubble - where greedy crooks at the top steal everything that isn't nailed down and foot the taxpayers with the bill.

Let's learn from our mistakes and NOT hand over the keys to the nation to the idiots who just got done ruining it.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:43 PM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,444,775 times
Reputation: 2506
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
Simple: We need to become the world's BEST climate to grow business in. Not 2nd, 3rd, or 23rd,..FIRST.

Well, you won't do that buy offshoring your companies. Instead of all these "charities", if companies would focus on employing Americans and stop the silly game playing... Hire someone because they are a good worker. Stop hiring for personality, etc. Even some of the best salespeople don't have squeaky personalities, but some really know their product and know how to sell it and close a deal.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:46 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,088,173 times
Reputation: 7282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
Discrimination is when people are marginalized (not hired, paid poorly, etc.) or forbidden from opportunities (such as employement) because of factors they cannot control, such as age, health, race, and gender. And what alternate reality court are you quoting, because here on Earth there are actual laws that forbid age discrimination, discrimination against the handicapped, etc. Now, sure, they aren't enforced well, but to claim that those folks are "not being discriminated against" does not in any way match current laws or common sense. Unless of course you're fine with a world that only hires people under 30 in perfect health, and since that increases corporate profit, it's clearly a good thing?!
In your prior post, you said older staff was laid off due to $$$$$$. That is NOT discrimination.

Rambler, post 26 "point is that many senior people there (and elsewhere) are laid off because they are "expensive"
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:47 PM
 
Location: USA
4,980 posts, read 8,444,775 times
Reputation: 2506
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
BS. Discrimination is when people are marginalized (not hired, paid poorly, etc.) or forbidden from opportunities (such as employement) because of factors they cannot control, such as age, health, race, and gender. And what alternate reality court are you quoting, because here on Earth there are actual laws that forbid age discrimination, discrimination against the handicapped, etc. Now, sure, they aren't enforced well, but to claim that those folks are "not being discriminated against" does not in any way match current laws or common sense. Unless of course you're fine with a world that only hires people under 30 in perfect health, and since that increases corporate profit, it's clearly a good thing?!

Of course, since you're in your 50's and living it up, it's clearly the fault of everyone else who's old and suffering that they are not doing as well. I guess they shouldn't have gotten sick since that was clearly "their choice" - not like luck can ever factor into anything... right.

Companies don't want older people because generally after 50, many get high blood pressure and other ailments, driving up insurance premiums. That's why they don't want to hire smokers. They feign caring and how bad smoking is, blah blah, but it's all about the money. They save more than 1K a year on each nonsmoker they employ.

The country club set isn't putting their money where their mouth is. If they truly wanted a better America, it's about the economy. A strong economy is a good standard of living. This country is living proof of it. But the government keeps politicizing things. There doesn't seem to be anyone with a backbone to stand up and do anything. They just talk. Remember when Ross Perot talked about the "giant sucking sound?"
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:50 PM
 
Location: USA
7,478 posts, read 5,799,543 times
Reputation: 12323
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
In your piror post, you said older staff was laid off due to $$$$$$. That is NOT discrimination.
Yes, it IS. For pity's sake - if a company is JUST looking at the bottom line and does NOT care about your performance, than by definition, your age will make it extremely difficult for you to find work. The net effect is the same as saying "no blacks need apply" - you cannot change your age anymore than you can change your skin color, and even if you are a hard worker, experienced, and in great health, you STILL cost more as an older worker thanks to health insurance and stupid assumptions that older workers will demand higher salaries. In the end, the net effect is the same - you won't be hired for reasons you cannot control, and that is discrimination. Maybe you don't believe me - I really don't care because common sense supports what I'm saying - but there are laws that forbid age discrimination, so it's not as if this is some "crazy new liberal idea" or some crap.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:55 PM
 
Location: NJ
18,677 posts, read 17,088,173 times
Reputation: 7282
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rambler123 View Post
- if a company is JUST looking at the bottom line and does NOT care about your performance, than by definition, your age will make it extremely difficult for you to find work. The net effect is the same as saying "no blacks need apply" - you cannot change your age anymore than you can change your skin color, and even if you are a hard worker, experienced, and in great health, you STILL cost more as an older worker thanks to health insurance and stupid assumptions that older workers will demand higher salaries. In the end, the net effect is the same - you won't be hired for reasons you cannot control, and that is discrimination. Maybe you don't believe me - I really don't care because common sense supports what I'm saying - but there are laws that forbid age discrimination, so it's not as if this is some "crazy new liberal idea" or some crap.
One cannot change their age, but they can continuously improve, and all should know the Fair Market Value for their position in their region. If one is far, far above it, one's performance best match its rank.
The color of ones skin, ones gender, ones looks are all intrinsic..ones work ethic, education, and training are only limited by ones own actions.
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Old 07-15-2012, 04:59 PM
 
644 posts, read 995,563 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by bobtn View Post
I've seen layoffs of all ages, and btw, I'm 52. Many only notice layoffs amongst their own sub-groups, as they only interact amongst the same.
I must agree with you. Nobody, IMO, was hit harder than the younger people, especially young college graduates. Almost all my counterparts right now my age are going through HELL at the moment trying to make it in life regardless of our efforts.
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Old 07-15-2012, 05:01 PM
 
644 posts, read 995,563 times
Reputation: 512
Quote:
Originally Posted by nebulous1 View Post
I am older than you, maybe more educated, and age has nothing to do with this job market. People are hiring their friends or connections and that's why you see really incompetent people who are employed, and competent, hard workers who can't find work.

"You just have to be well-connected in this job market" someone said.
Well you can't say that age has nothing to do with it when it does a lot. You don't know how many times I've received B.S. excuses from some employers who didn't want to hire me based on my age and they didn't hide it either. They didn't care what else I had to say, but once they saw how young I was, they pushed me to the side.
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