Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-17-2012, 05:49 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 2,131,932 times
Reputation: 1740

Advertisements

Having been subject to the humiliations of performance reviews etc, and many years of corporate life, plus generally non existent management where its generally every man for himself, where no one shares information and there is little in the way of training and development - and management will give new starts, or anyone any assistance in performing their job - only the bare minimum. Feedback and performance reviews often come down to vague statements that can't be tied down to specifics.

I have always thought there some logic, intelligence and strategy behind corporate management - now I believe that corporate management/employers are just as clueless as everyone else - they basically just push work unto whoever in there opinion is the strongest in each area without adding value the overall department or organisation

Therefore the only advice for the average employee is basically just outshine everyone else doing the same job as you, don't expect to be managed or motivated, or any teamwork. When it comes down its just survival of the fittest - those deemed to have most knowledge, hardwork and competence will survive - the point being that this generally comes from the individual working hard - just don't expect to be managed, assisted in any way shape or form by the average corporate management system or the organisation.

It just amazes the amount of waste, and shambolic organisation and management that people get away with in the average corporate job. - Why do shareholders let these people get away with effectively fraud - pretending that their doing a job, which there clearly not doing.

My point is that in many corporate outfits - management are often purely parastical and don't add any value the individuals - should companies not be asking what the point in paying big money for managers who add little or no value to the people underneath them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-17-2012, 06:51 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,156 posts, read 80,258,802 times
Reputation: 57016
Training and ongoing development are usually the responsibility of the front-line supervisors, not upper management. Supervisors that do not develop and motivate their staff should be questioned on this when evaluated by their next level managers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 07:26 PM
 
1,140 posts, read 2,131,932 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hemlock140 View Post
Training and ongoing development are usually the responsibility of the front-line supervisors, not upper management. Supervisors that do not develop and motivate their staff should be questioned on this when evaluated by their next level managers.



Well also I am guessing what happens with ineffective middle management or supervisors is that they pay lip service to developing and managing their staff - they attend meetings, say the right things but fall short on specifics and actual effective systems, procedure and tools - and all the hard work and overtime is very often down to managers who don't ensure there are decent handovers, knowledge transfers, systems, standardisation etc. They often just don't have the time or resources to actually manage effectively - its just crisis management.

They will tell their bosses above their managing everyone, and training etc - but when has anyone above you questioned you on how well your being developed by your management, how do you verify a managers words? and going above your boss could lead to you being fired.

They reality many people are just dumped at desks with a laptop, and given no guidance - and asking for support or guidance can make you look incompetent, therefore most choose to struggle away in silence and pretend they know what there doing.

It seems many jobs quality can be measured very effectively - but in terms of actually developing staff, systems, tools, procedures and middle management- this one area where vagueness, bluff and charlatans rule supreme - its almost expected to have chaos and dysfunction which every often is down to poor management.

How many times do we see a new manager take over department promising the world and leave a few years later - having not developed one procedure, tool, system, - nothing changes just more of the same crisis management.

If management don't add value then get rid of them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 07:41 PM
 
Location: 500 miles from home
33,943 posts, read 22,395,597 times
Reputation: 25806
Quote:
Originally Posted by mikeyking View Post
Having been subject to the humiliations of performance reviews etc, and many years of corporate life, plus generally non existent management where its generally every man for himself, where no one shares information and there is little in the way of training and development - and management will give new starts, or anyone any assistance in performing their job - only the bare minimum. Feedback and performance reviews often come down to vague statements that can't be tied down to specifics. Yep. That's what we thrive on - vague BS that no one can pick apart. Think ~ political speak.

I have always thought there some logic, intelligence and strategy behind corporate management - now I believe that corporate management/employers are just as clueless as everyone else - they basically just push work unto whoever in there opinion is the strongest in each area without adding value the overall department or organisation There is no logic or much strategy in corporate management - everyone is just frantically trying to hold on to what they have or figuring out how to climb up the next rung.

Therefore the only advice for the average employee is basically just outshine everyone else doing the same job as you, don't expect to be managed or motivated, or any teamwork. (really, you don't always have to be the best at your job if you know how to schmooze the right people and say the right things) When it comes down its just survival of the fittest - those deemed to have most knowledge, hardwork and competence will survive - the point being that this generally comes from the individual working hard - just don't expect to be managed, assisted in any way shape or form by the average corporate management system or the organisation. Not in this economy. It's every man for himself now and your manager doesn't want to get you promoted; because they might not be able to replace you. It wasn't always this bad. Used to be - the reputation of being a good manager depended on how many of his/her people got promoted. Now, it just might be how many they fire.

It just amazes the amount of waste, and shambolic organisation and management that people get away with in the average corporate job. - Why do shareholders let these people get away with effectively fraud - pretending that their doing a job, which there clearly not doing.

My point is that in many corporate outfits - management are often purely parastical and don't add any value the individuals - should companies not be asking what the point in paying big money for managers who add little or no value to the people underneath them.
Clearly, I need to get out of corporate america! It truly is every Dilbert cartoon I ever read. There are still a few good people - but they are few and far between and often get overlooked OR the truly good ones are off and running before they get tied to the 'golden handcuffs'.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Up in the air
19,112 posts, read 30,546,065 times
Reputation: 16394
At the company I used to work for, there were no promotions and people actually turned down raises. The owner would go through and fire people who 'made too much' and nobody wanted to be in that position, so they would rather stay where they are and not risk it.

I was laid off and found out later that it was because I was paid too much, and that the owner hired someone to do my job (or rather, half-ass my job because she can't lift anything over 20 lbs and has fake nails so she can't actually inspect parts) for $7 an hour less than what I was making, then recapped the pay at what she's now making.

Apparently, hes regretting his decision because he did something rash without thinking it through and it's actually costing the company more money than it's saving with the lower pay.

Basically, what I learned from that job is that corporate managers/employers expect you to structure your entire life around the job. They expect you to work 80 hours a week like they do, and if you let them know that you're hourly, and not salary they will tell you 'if you truly wanted to company to succeed, you wouldn't worry about the money and you'd work for free'. They will expect you to be on call 24/7 and will think nothing of calling you at 3am to ask an asinine question.

If you don't devote your life to the job, you're seen as a slacker and unmotivated and will never be promoted or given a raise. Of course, if you are, you'll likely be fire for making too much.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 08:48 PM
 
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
44,156 posts, read 80,258,802 times
Reputation: 57016
Unfortunately all of the above is common but certainly not true in all cases. I'm taking my staff of 7 to training for 4 days in another state next month, and regularly meet with them individually to go over their development plan. We paid for one to take night classes at a local college, and we are training an admin to do higher level work simply because she asked and we could use the help. We hired a temp replacement. Managers need to realize that training and opportunities for more responsibility are good investments. unfortunately for those people looking for work that complain so much on this forum, that can mean more promotions from within so the outside openings become limited to entry level.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit, Michigan
29,648 posts, read 24,678,786 times
Reputation: 28294
Wow, every time I read these types of topics, I thank god I dropped out of college and stayed away from this "corporate America" crap. I actually enjoy my job enough to work 60 hours a week, but if I had to pull 60 a week in some of these hell hole cubicle jobs, I would be a miserable wreck! I would be interested to find out what the average lifespan is for the career of a white collar worker. How many stay with it vs. the number who decide it's not worth it...
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 09:56 PM
 
3,276 posts, read 7,821,827 times
Reputation: 8308
You hit the nail on the head, mikey. I've been out in the "corporate world" for six years and every job I've had has been exactly as you described. Handed a laptop and told to "figure it out and don't bother me with questions."

Most of my managers have only cared about themselves and could care less about your professional development or training. They act like their staff are a thorn in their side. Then they wonder why people leave.

Threats and bullying are very common in most corporate environments as well. I got a performance review recently that was positive, but my manager had to add that if I screw up I will be put on probation (I'm sure he would love to do it). On my FIRST day at the job, he spent half of the morning telling me different reasons that they could use to fire me.

Last edited by statisticsnerd; 03-17-2012 at 10:06 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-17-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: southern california
61,289 posts, read 87,129,640 times
Reputation: 55550
fair question easy answer
slaves and gold plated underwear
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-18-2012, 04:55 AM
 
1,140 posts, read 2,131,932 times
Reputation: 1740
Quote:
Originally Posted by statisticsnerd View Post
You hit the nail on the head, mikey. I've been out in the "corporate world" for six years and every job I've had has been exactly as you described. Handed a laptop and told to "figure it out and don't bother me with questions."

Most of my managers have only cared about themselves and could care less about your professional development or training. They act like their staff are a thorn in their side. Then they wonder why people leave.

Threats and bullying are very common in most corporate environments as well. I got a performance review recently that was positive, but my manager had to add that if I screw up I will be put on probation (I'm sure he would love to do it). On my FIRST day at the job, he spent half of the morning telling me different reasons that they could use to fire me.
Exactly the reason why there is so much of a high turnover rates in companies.

Its just Corporate Managers who want the bigger salary, and career benefits but don't actually want to manage, or do the real hard work of trying to improve a department.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Work and Employment > Job Search
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top