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Old 09-11-2012, 06:00 PM
 
Location: Tennessee
23,556 posts, read 17,535,380 times
Reputation: 27601

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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
One thing I've had to think about as I was applying for jobs was this. I've basically been institutionalized, in a strange way. I've never done time in prison. I'm talking about a different kind of institutionalizing. The university became more like home than the world outside of it. For a long time, I couldn't function without it. I knew at age 18 I wasn't prepared for the real world. In fact, up until 2011, I knew I wouldn't make it in the real world. The only reason I was rushing to get out of college is so that I would not feel like a dinosaur in college. Other reasons included that eventually I wouldn't have any money for college. From 2011-2012, it was a time of playing catch up. I got a student job with the university. I had connections, so I got the job. I almost didn't get an internship, but I pulled it off. May 2012, everything ends. Being that it was a student job, I was required to stop working after a certain day. Internship gone too. Summer semester was the last stretch. July 2012, I graduated.

The thing is, I held a job longer working for the university than I did working outside of it. In the outside, if I had problems on the job, I walked out before I got fired. Today, I am paying for being institutionalized. I never anticipated being in the real world. Now it's hitting me like crazy. This is one of the reasons unemployment is hitting me so bad. Before, I was a student. I expected not to work. Now I expect to work, and I have a degree, so my expectations are much higher. I had to think about alot of this because I wondered if one of the reasons I can't find a job is because I graduated from college more unprepared than I thought. Perhaps knowing how to write a cover letter and a resume isn't enough. I learned how to write those because I was desperate. For a long time I never knew how to write a resume. Actually, alot of things I did, I only looked for jobs because I was broke and desperate. In the Spring 2012 semester, I could see myself getting out, so I started looking for jobs. Now it's for real.

In fact, the reason I am the way I am today is because when I was in high school, I couldn't think 10, 15 years down the road. At most, I might think about a few months down the road. 9 years ago, I was a senior contemplating college, but I didn't see it coming. A few of my classmates didn't see college in their future. For them, it was graduate from high school, get a job(or join the military), get married, have kids, and many have done that. I didn't see any of that for me. At 18, I didn't have the temperament to hold a job, have a romantic relationship(although I wanted one), be in the military(I have a bit of a defiant streak) or take care of anyone(I could barely take care of me). I sometimes wonder if I had gotten a job straight out of high school, and skipped college. Would I be happier? Probably not. I consider my degree an accomplishment. I think about this because of what I'm seeing out of my classmates. They have lives that would seem ridiculous for ME. I'm 26, and I know some people who went to my high school, some younger than me, who are married and have kids, and hold jobs I could never be happy having. However, they seem much happier than I am. Their happiness is higher. This is where I'm questioning my life.
The extent of your "institutionalization" is of your own making. I followed a similar path as you have for a long time - intelligent, preferred the comfort of going to class and learning over having to work, and avoided responsibility until the money dried up. I had to drop out of school for a semester and reassess the situation. Luckily I was only 22 when I finally got some sense. I started working as a part-timer at Wal-Mart, graduated in 2010, got a job (though not in my field), and now have a better job. Life is usually a series of progressive, incremental steps, and you're going to have to start at the very bottom.

Sure, the degree is an accomplishment, but if I was a hiring manager, what's special about YOU that makes you deserving of the position? Millions of people with degrees are out of work, and the majority of them have experience and a good employment history. You have neither. In fact, you've differentiated yourself in a negative way - if you turned 18 in 2004, why did you just now get the bachelor's degree? It's not like you were working full-time and going to school part-time. Where did those years go? If you had just now gotten the a master's, people would be more understanding, but even then, you'd need to have SOMETHING other than a degree, a student job, and an unpaid internship to put on a resume. No academic experience is going to be as heavily weighted as real, private sector job experience while job hunting.

To be frank, yes, you probably would have been better off financially to have just gotten a job right out of high school. Maybe your job wouldn't have made you happy, but most jobs don't make people happy. You're not happy and fulfilled now either. However, at least you'd have had years of experience under your belt, eight years of income, and probably a promotion or job switch to climb the ladder. All you've done at this point is waste years of your life in the university. You're unemployed, no driver's license, broke, and unhappy. You would have been no worse off under most other circumstances.

Your issues run deeper than just not being able to get a job - yours isn't a case of someone who has done everything correctly and still can't get a job. You've said in previous posts that you "severed all ties" with the county, you "didn't expect to work" as a student, you haven't learned to drive by 26, you weren't interested in socializing much, etc.

You need much more than employment advice. You need a successful person to mentor you on how to be a well-adjusted, functioning adult.

Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
I became too comfortable, to the point where I never learned how to function outside of academia. Part of me graduating from college was me putting academia behind me for now, and learning how to succeed in the world outside of academia.
I would think you'd be just as well to go back and get a master's or even apply to a PhD program. It gets your name back into your field and hopefully you've learned enough to network while in school and get whatever work that comes your way. It would give you a chance to reboot.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:06 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
The extent of your "institutionalization" is of your own making. I followed a similar path as you have for a long time - intelligent, preferred the comfort of going to class and learning over having to work, and avoided responsibility until the money dried up. I had to drop out of school for a semester and reassess the situation. Luckily I was only 22 when I finally got some sense. I started working as a part-timer at Wal-Mart, graduated in 2010, got a job (though not in my field), and now have a better job. Life is usually a series of progressive, incremental steps, and you're going to have to start at the very bottom.
It felt natural to let myself get institutionalized. I wasnít truly prepared to leave home. I never worked, I didnít have car. It didnít matter to me. As long as I got away, it didnít matter. For me, the money dried up twice.

Quote:
Sure, the degree is an accomplishment, but if I was a hiring manager, what's special about YOU that makes you deserving of the position? Millions of people with degrees are out of work, and the majority of them have experience and a good employment history. You have neither. In fact, you've differentiated yourself in a negative way - if you turned 18 in 2004, why did you just now get the bachelor's degree? It's not like you were working full-time and going to school part-time. Where did those years go? If you had just now gotten the a master's, people would be more understanding, but even then, you'd need to have SOMETHING other than a degree, a student job, and an unpaid internship to put on a resume. No academic experience is going to be as heavily weighted as real, private sector job experience while job hunting.
Well, looking at it from the managerís perspective, this is my rebuttal: Iím willing to do the job for less. I can do the job, and I will do it for less pay than what is offered. Give me 30 days. You can pay me 50% less than what you would pay someone else. If you donít like my work, then you can get rid of me. If you like me, keep me for another 30 and pay me 75% of what you would normally pay. After those 30, if you like my work, then pay me full pay. If not, you can let me go.

As for why I was in college so long. Well, letís just say I didnít deal with college so well at first. I wasnít fully prepared for college either. At one point, I had medical problems that kept me out of school for a time. I also switched majors.

Quote:
To be frank, yes, you probably would have been better off financially to have just gotten a job right out of high school. Maybe your job wouldn't have made you happy, but most jobs don't make people happy. You're not happy and fulfilled now either. However, at least you'd have had years of experience under your belt, eight years of income, and probably a promotion or job switch to climb the ladder. All you've done at this point is waste years of your life in the university. You're unemployed, no driver's license, broke, and unhappy. You would have been no worse off under most other circumstances.
Well, this is the way I looked at it. I knew at 18 that I couldnít take care of me. My mentality at 18 was different. I viewed college as an escape. Iím talking about the way I was then vs. now. I was talking about if I had just skipped college and gotten a job straight away. Would I have gotten fired or would I have stayed the course? Would I have been happy just getting a job? No I wouldnít have. I would have felt angry because I would have felt unfulfilled. I remember high school. I was told ďget good grades and go to college, or youíll end up working at McDonalds or some menial labor jobĒ. This is how I see it. I would never be happy at such jobs because Iíve been about what makes ME happy. This is what I was like at 18. My question wasn't about would I be better off financially. It was a question of "would I have made it at all"?


Quote:
Your issues run deeper than just not being able to get a job - yours isn't a case of someone who has done everything correctly and still can't get a job. You've said in previous posts that you "severed all ties" with the county, you "didn't expect to work" as a student, you haven't learned to drive by 26, you weren't interested in socializing much, etc.
I never learned because this is where I was at age 18: Fed up with Paulding County, fed up with living in the South, angry and bitter, and I wanted to escape. I vowed never to return to Paulding County because of all the problems I had in middle school and high school. I ended up making two returns before. The first time it was social issues at school, the second time it was issues with medical problems. The first two times I bounced back. This time it feels more permanent. It feels very ironic. I vowed never to come back because I view the county as a backwards place to live.

I did more socializing in college, but for a while, I never got around people who could help me with my major. I never developed any good connections. It took a long time until I could do that. The thing was that everything I learned, I learned too late.

Quote:
You need much more than employment advice. You need a successful person to mentor you on how to be a well-adjusted, functioning adult.
I eventually did get someone to help me. Actually, someone else got someone for me. I eventually got help while in college. The thing with me was this. Any actually help that I got, I got it too late. At this point, my father is helping me as much as he can to get me back to where I should be. He has been helpful with my resume. In many ways, I trust him more than I trust most other adults because he's known me since I was born. He knows what kind of job history I've had, and what kind of person I've been. He keeps telling me to keep trying, keep updating my resume, use certain words pertaining to certain jobs to catch an HR person's eye.

I mentioned all of this because the way I am now is shaped by things happening as far back as high school. My social development was basically slower than normal. I was book smart, but socially, I developed slower. Being in academia basically helped me function. Someone asked me if I had been tested for Aspergerís. I said that I was never tested.
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Old 09-11-2012, 10:15 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
And I have this to ask. If a job doesn't require me to have a driver's license, why should I have to mention that to any employer? How are they going to figure that out if I don't tell them?

A bit about me. I needed an internship. I called the park and asked questions about it. I biked to the internship, not telling them that I didn't have a car. I didn't feel a need to tell them. I went to that internship, no matter if it was raining or boiling outside. I proved that I could do the job, and that I would go to great lengths to get to the job. It also helped that it was much safer to ride to it and there were a few bicycle trails leading to it. However, I proved that I was determined as could be, no matter what. I'm trying to show that same determination and dedication now.
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Old 09-11-2012, 11:59 PM
 
3,262 posts, read 3,002,338 times
Reputation: 1893
Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
Well, looking at it from the manager’s perspective, this is my rebuttal: I’m willing to do the job for less. I can do the job, and I will do it for less pay than what is offered. Give me 30 days. You can pay me 50% less than what you would pay someone else. If you don’t like my work, then you can get rid of me. If you like me, keep me for another 30 and pay me 75% of what you would normally pay. After those 30, if you like my work, then pay me full pay. If not, you can let me go.
Closest thing to what you are describing is temp work. If you want to de-facto put this offer on the table you don't and for the most part can't do it directly. You sign up with a temp firm, work hard despite the boring work and low pay, and impress someone enough to take you full time.

Incidentally, you should register with any temp agency near you and do whatever commutable work you can get from them regardless of how menial. It's cash in your pocket and you sure as heck aren't networking at home. Bike commuting gives you a solid 20 mile or so radius to work with if you are out of shape, ~40 if you are in.



Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
And I have this to ask. If a job doesn't require me to have a driver's license, why should I have to mention that to any employer? How are they going to figure that out if I don't tell them?
You shouldn't. You either can (and will) get there every single day on time, no excuses, or you won't, and the method you use to do so is none of their business.

Aside and in general, get a license ASAP. You might not always have access to a car or someone to teach you, but, when you can even for an hour or whatever take advantage and learn.
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Old 09-12-2012, 01:54 AM
 
110 posts, read 347,298 times
Reputation: 97
I get the sense that people are being pretty judgmental about your life choices, whether or not it's justified.

I get that you do feel a bit of social disconnect with the area you're living in. You mentioned that you were really bitter about living in the South. Paulding GA isn't exactly the most ethnically diverse area, so as a family of recent immigrants, that might be a factor in why you feel so isolated. You might be more comfortable on a personal and professional level in one of the larger cities in the South, as there's going to be more job opportunities and more open minded employers.

You did mention you have anger issues, and that you don't like being told what to do. Most people don't like being told what to do.. but that's pretty much part of working anywhere- unless you're the boss. In fact, griping about your work woes with sympathetic co-workers over some beers is a great pastime and bonding experience. I dunno about your anger issues though. That takes therapy, medication, or something. Co-workers (and interviewers) can pick up ppl with anger issues, and it's a big red flag when they're looking to hire (or looking for the first to fire).

Where is your family originally from, btw? Did you check locales with a higher representation of that area?
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Old 09-12-2012, 09:06 AM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by lostfan13 View Post
I get the sense that people are being pretty judgmental about your life choices, whether or not it's justified.

I get that you do feel a bit of social disconnect with the area you're living in. You mentioned that you were really bitter about living in the South. Paulding GA isn't exactly the most ethnically diverse area, so as a family of recent immigrants, that might be a factor in why you feel so isolated. You might be more comfortable on a personal and professional level in one of the larger cities in the South, as there's going to be more job opportunities and more open minded employers.

You did mention you have anger issues, and that you don't like being told what to do. Most people don't like being told what to do.. but that's pretty much part of working anywhere- unless you're the boss. In fact, griping about your work woes with sympathetic co-workers over some beers is a great pastime and bonding experience. I dunno about your anger issues though. That takes therapy, medication, or something. Co-workers (and interviewers) can pick up ppl with anger issues, and it's a big red flag when they're looking to hire (or looking for the first to fire).

Where is your family originally from, btw? Did you check locales with a higher representation of that area?
My family and me are not immigrants. We're Black Americans. We've been in this nation since slavery. My father is from Wisconsin. We all once lived in the Seattle area for a few years. I've been described as the "White" Black guy. Had trouble with alot of people from 6th grade to 12th grade. There are more Blacks here now, but so far, I haven't been able to relate to alot of people. It isn't really so much the issue with diversity. It is more a culture issue out here. I'm in a culture of 4-wheelers, NASCAR, confederate flags, and the like. I never fit in with it. I know I would be more comfortable somewhere else. This is part of why I am looking for jobs all over. I'm looking in neighboring Cobb County, Atlanta, DeKalb, and other major cities, such as Dallas, Denver, Seattle, Portland, Minneapolis, and I've even tried for Canada. Canada is getting tougher on foreigners trying to get work.

I normally never complained about my work woes with other co-workers. I never would do that. I never trusted my co-workers enough to talk about it because I felt like I could be double-crossed(on the job anyway).

My last boss was able to pick up on if I had any issues. She could tell just by looking at me. I try not to show emotion on the job.

I try not to show any emotion on an interview. I try to put on my happy face, show them "I'm up for it, I'll do whatever you want".
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:16 PM
 
6 posts, read 7,241 times
Reputation: 11
Maybe this has already been suggested but perhaps you should look into getting a moped or a motorcycle if you don't want to drive a car? They're cheaper and you'd be able to go farther than a bike with less work.

Also, I did a little (little as in I searched 'geography' on one job site) search for geography jobs in my area (Washington, DC) and I found some jobs that were entry level or close to it. Of course I don't know your exact skills in diff geography related software and whatnot so the jobs I found might not be a good fit. Exactly where have you been looking? I remember reading that you said you were looking at geography related companies. Maybe you could branch out more? Some of the types of companies that came up in my search were utility companies, architecture firms, management analysis companies, a global development research institute, engineering firms, and global security companies to name a few. You also might want to try some non-profits. I know when I was searching for jobs a few of the places I looked at had jobs that were geography related. One of the places had a job for like geographic development research assistant and they wanted someone with a geography degree.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:37 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aucinema View Post
Maybe this has already been suggested but perhaps you should look into getting a moped or a motorcycle if you don't want to drive a car? They're cheaper and you'd be able to go farther than a bike with less work.

Also, I did a little (little as in I searched 'geography' on one job site) search for geography jobs in my area (Washington, DC) and I found some jobs that were entry level or close to it. Of course I don't know your exact skills in diff geography related software and whatnot so the jobs I found might not be a good fit. Exactly where have you been looking? I remember reading that you said you were looking at geography related companies. Maybe you could branch out more? Some of the types of companies that came up in my search were utility companies, architecture firms, management analysis companies, a global development research institute, engineering firms, and global security companies to name a few. You also might want to try some non-profits. I know when I was searching for jobs a few of the places I looked at had jobs that were geography related. One of the places had a job for like geographic development research assistant and they wanted someone with a geography degree.
I recently applied for a job in Fairfax,VA, so I'm familiar with what you're talking about.

Where I live, anything other than a car is considered dangerous to ride. If it isn't as fast as a car or as big as a car, you're asking to get killed. That and I don't know how to ride a motorcycle. I'm learning how to drive. I'm just getting over the fear of a car, so a motorcycle at this point, I'm not recommending it. Ironically, I'm less scared of mopeds and scooters than I'm motorcycles. Mopeds and scooters work for places like Portland, Washington DC, San Francisco, Seattle, Chicago, and the like.

This is my skill level. I have experience with ArcGIS 10 and I'm learning ArcGIS 10.1. I used it to create some maps for a national park. I was counting on the fact that since I interned at a national park, and I helped create new maps for them, it would prove some of my experience. I figured it would count for something.

Do you know of any non-profits that use geography?

I've also been looking at jobs in green energy. So far I haven't seen any.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:46 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
I get the sense that people are being pretty judgmental about your life choices, whether or not it's justified.
In many ways, I have felt judged. The people closest to me keep telling me it isn't about when I start or when I get out, but the fact that I finish and come out of the university with a degree. Now I'm being made to feel like I wasted my life. it took me long enough to finish. You never know what has happened to a person. I've had to come back from alot. I've broken my spine and spent time away from school. I've had issues dealing with being depressed alot, dealing with the shock of being on my own. I entered college ill-prepared, so it didn't help. I consider myself someone who went through alot to get my degree and I don't like being made to feel like it was all worthless.
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Old 09-12-2012, 08:47 PM
Status: "I hate living in Georgia!!" (set 8 days ago)
 
47,987 posts, read 45,443,916 times
Reputation: 15310
Quote:
Incidentally, you should register with any temp agency near you and do whatever commutable work you can get from them regardless of how menial. It's cash in your pocket and you sure as heck aren't networking at home. Bike commuting gives you a solid 20 mile or so radius to work with if you are out of shape, ~40 if you are in.
I also need to make sure any work I get doesn't strain my back. Riding a bicycle doesn't hurt my back. Lifting objects over 50 pounds could very well hurt me. I broke my spine a few years ago. It's a miracle that I'm walking. I have to be very careful about what I lift.
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